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1312 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES Mr. Brown. No, I was the international president. Mr. Owens. Of what ? Mr. Brown. The machinists. Mr. Owens. That is as an affiliate of the A. F. of L. ? Mr. Brown. Yes. Mr. Owens. How long did you liold that position ? Mr. Brown. I was the acting international president beginning with the fall of 19o8 and 1 year thereafter I was made the international president. Mr. Owens. How long after that was it before you broke with the A. F. ofL.^ Mr. Brown. That was in 1939. We were suspended by the A. F. of L. in November of 1945. Mr. Owens. You mean you broke within a year after you became president ? Mr. Brown. No, I became the president in 1939. In 1945 our gen- eral membership—rather, to be exact, the convention in 1945 recom- mended to the membership that we defer i)ayment of the per capita tax until our union received the same treatment as other unions. The membershii) voted on that in January. The membership concurred in the convention recommendation but before the membership had an opportunity to vote the A. F. of L. executive council suspended our international union. Mr. Owens. But the first break did come in 1939? Mr. Brown. No, there was no break in 1939. Mr. Owens. When did the first part of the dispute arise? Mr. Brown. The basis of the dispute was in 1938, as I recall, but it in no Avay affected our affiliation. Mr. Owens. But it continued to grow definitely worse until 1945? Mr. Brown. Yes. Mr. Owens. So when you were operating in California you were operating as an independent union ? Mr. Brown. After November of 1945. We do not refer to our imion as an independent union because the term "independent union" so often is used in connection with the company union. We are the International Association of Machinists without affiliation with any group. Mr. Owens. Then in October of 1945, when you had the Cincinnati agreement, you were still affiliated with the A. F. of L. Mr. Brown. Yes, sir. I Avas on the executive council but T Avas not present because our council Avas meeting in New York just prior to the grand lodge con- A^ention meeting. I could not get there. Mr. Oavens. While you were a member of the A. F. of L. were you also a part of Avhat is called the consolidated group in HollyAvood i Mr. Broavn. We still are. Mr. Oavens. When did you first join them? Mr. Broavn. I don't recall. I believe when Mr. Wayne comes on the witness stand he will be able to tell you. That is one detail I j'.m not familiar with. When Ave first became associated Avith tlie Conference of Studio Unions. I do not know. Mr. Oavens. Approximately?