Minutes of evidence taken before the Departmental Committee on Cinematograph Films (1936)

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 57 12 May, 1936.] Mr. F. W. Baker, Mr. M. N. Kearney, {Continued. Mr. A. Korda, Mr. N. Loudon and Captain the Hon. R. Norton. 392. Yon would at least have a common interest m securing information? — Yes. 393. And it would relieve the Board of Trade from the very invidious business of administering an Act in the interest of a particular section of it? — Quite 394. That is my point? — (Mr. Kearney): 1 think the answer is, would that it could be so. The various interests are so considerably divergent; and it is complicated by the fact that there are not only divergent British interests but divergent foreign interests as well. It makes it extremely difficult. 395. The next point I want to come to is the question of the special exhibition value. When the President of the Board of Trade introduced the present Act in the form of a Bill in 1927 into the House of Commons, he said that special exhibition value was synonymous with box office value. Do you consider that there is any possibility of giving another and a broader meaning to those words? — (Mr. Baker) : Well, I believe that in our deliberations, Sir Arnold, there has been an intention to give a broader meaning, and that perhaps is evidenced in paragraph 18. It does not directly refer to the special exhibition value, I agree, hut it is evidenced in that paragraph under " Short films." I think 1 know what you have in mind. That is the facility whereby certain films that may not be directly fictional but valuable for screening in this country should have the benefit of quota. I think that is what you have in mind, and I think that that class indicates the desire on behalf of the producers to encourage or help forward that class of picture. 396. I read that note with very great interest, and if I may take up the time of the Committee I will explain precisely what 1 have in mind. There are films produced by the Ministry of Labour showing the beneficial effects of industrial transfers. There are films produced by the Ministry of Fisheries showing in a dramatic form the vital interests of the nation in its own industries. The Post Office has made great strides, much to the public benefit, in the same way. I do not suggest that those films should be admitted to quota on the ordinary basis, but 1 do suggest that, apart from box office value, the cinema owners of this country have a moral obligation upon them to show a film of special exhibition value which is for the national benefit, although not of high box office value, but good stuff and worth looking at. (Mr. Kearney): That is precisely why wre suggest these films, documentary films, should be eligible to serve as renters' quota, because, if they are not eligible as quota, there has hitherto been a tendency on the part of the exhibitor not to use up his time in showing them, because he has to use a definite part of his time in showing quota pictures. The foreign renter will not take them because, unless they are eligible for renters' quota, they do not match his foreign films. 397. Would you accept a tribunal other than the Board of Trade Advisory Committee which is not in all respects suitable .for such a purpose, a Committee of three independent persons who would view these films and would exercise their discretion in admitting them to quota operating under the Board of Trade? — (Mr. Baler) : I do not know that we as producers would raise any serious objection, but we really take the view, Sir Arnold — I know your views^ in this matter — that to some extent your point is covered in paragraph 18 (e). 398. I agree, but you must not know my views. 1 am here as a judicial person and whatever views I may express to the Advisory Committee are not relevant to what I am asking here? — No, I quite understand. 399. One more point. I saw outside in the street as I came in a poster, " Nasty Mae West film.'' Now that unquestionably is special exhibition value? — (Mr. Kearney): Probably more so on account of the posters. 400. More so for the posters. You have to put that sort of thing on the one hand and on the other dramatic documentary film, which has a far more lasting effect upon the minds of people, but it is quite impossible to say that you will get people to the theatre for the purpose of seeing a Post Office film although it will give pleasure and instruction and a lasting pleasure to large numbers?— That is so. (Mr. Baker): I do not think the public object to seeing that class of picture. I think that if it is on the screen a large proportion of them like it, and if this proposal in paragraph 18 (e) will permit of that class of picture being accepted for quota, and that is the desire of the producers, I think it will be to the good, it will bring in a lot of that class of subject. 401. I revert once more to the question of capital investment needed in order to produce more British films. You thought that it would not have the effect of causing greater concentration of industry. Can you suggest what is a reasonable capital sum required to start and maintain a successful studio? Is it £100,000 or a quarter of a million or is it £1 million? — (Mr. Kearney): To erect your studio and equip it you require a certain amount of capital. The making of your picture requires a different type of capital altogether. 402. Here? — And everywhere. (Mr. Loudon): The producer — if I may answer that question — if he is clever can make his picture economically. He can use any of the studios that are in existence as factories in order to make that picture, he need not necessarily own studios, he can rent one and make a picture. All he requires is a certain amount of money to make his picture. (Mr. Kearney) : He may get advances from the renter who is going to rent it. There are many ways of financing the making of a picture. 403. I have heard complaints from people working in the industry that your trade is one of the worst organised in England in that you are always in a hurry, you are always expecting dressmakers, costumiers and carpenters to work three shifts, two shifts on Saturdays and Sundays, that you never have a programme in advance, that in general you are artistic in your methods rather than commercial?— That is very high praise to say we are artistic in our methods. (Mr. Baker) : I think there is a good deal of justification and truth in that. (Mr. Loudon): They may be generalising a little. 404. My friends are admittedly generalising, but they are nearly all men and women working, and they say it is due to the fact that if they had a sound commercial manager who insisted on keeping them all in order it would save a great deal of money and you would incidentally do far less damage to the interests of your employees. Is that being lessened by the modern studio? — (Mr. Baker): I think that we are experiencing in this country, as we would in any other industry, that with growth there is better control and more improved commercial methods are being adopted. That is inevitable, I believe, and I am quite certain within my memory there has been a considerable improvement. (Capt. the Ron. B. Norton): I think I should like to say that in America they are obviously better organised as producers than we are here, but that is because artistic people have been made commercial. You will never make a commercial person artistic, you will never make a good producer by having an ;irtistic group of people round him because you will not get any box office residt. 105. (Sir Aim, hi Wilson) : Thank you, my Lord Chairman, those are all the important points I wish to put, and I apologise to the Committee for keeping them so long. 406. (Chairman) : Gentlemen, we are very much obliged to you for the evidence you have given us. — (Mr. Baker) : 1 think 1 might say, my Lord Chairman, before we go, that if you deem it necessary to call any of us as a body or otherwise we shall be pleased to be at your service to clear up any questions or give additional evidence. 407. (Chairman): Thank you very much. i The \\'il in sses withdrew.) 36452 II