Minutes of evidence taken before the Departmental Committee on Cinematograph Films (1936)

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 63 19 May, 1936.] Mr. I'.un, Rotha. [( 'mi 1 1 n mil . automatically got the exhibitors' quota have been increasing in the last year or two? You say, " The production of British short films which have been registered under the Act has fallen from 170,000 feet to 68,000 feet between 1929 and 1935." Well, side by side with that there has been a considerable increase of those which do not come into the renters' quota? — Yes. 117. And it looks as if the production was fairly strong in spite of the lack of renters' quota? — Yes. 418. That seems to show a very healthy demand for these documentary films? — I think the demand is there, Sir, and I think we have attempted over the last six years to do everything we can to further the production of documentary films, but we have certainly been working under difficulties. Last year, I should imagine, speaking offhand, probably 35 to 40 documentary films were made, the previous year I should think the number was in the region of 14 or 15, and perhaps four or five the year before that. Those are only figures given without evidence at hand. 419. Then under paragraph 5 you draw a contrast between certain films which were accepted for quota and certain other films which were not. In your view was this a wrong decision from the cultural point of view or from the box office point of view. I am afraid I am not familiar with any of these films? — From the cultural and box office point of view. I would suggest that casual descriptive films are often acquired by foreign distributing companies and are made on " quickie " lines — if you will accept the term " quickie " — as against films like " Beside the Seaside " or " The Key to Scotland," both of which took a great deal of time and skill to produce, and in the making of which a mobile sound-recording truck and studio scenes were used. Special music and special poetry were written for them. 420. You put up a case for " Beside the Seaside " and " The Key to Scotland " and it was refused? — Yes. 421. Was the same trouble taken about making the case. Was the evidence put in to the same extent? — Testimonials of special exhibition value were solicited from various people, both inside and outside the film trade and were submitted. 422. When was this occurrence, lately? — They were submitted about six or seven months ago, I understand. 423. Then I would like to come to Part B, paragraph 4, at the top of the page. You say that the producers of these documentary films feel that in their ease special exhibition value depends on quite different factors from special exhibition value in the case of fiction films. Docs special exhibition value arise in the case of fiction films. It is not really taken into account, is it, that is 7iot the test. The fiction film is automatically admitted, is it not? — That is quite true. I think the point we wish to make there is that the appeal of the documentary film to the public is of a different character from the appeal of the fiction film. Documentary films can only obtain full quota under the present Act by proving " special exhibition value ", which puts them at a disadvantage with other films. 424. I see. You suggest that the grant of full quota should be given by a special Sub-Committee of the present Advisory Committee representative of such interests as the British Film Institute. Then m paragraph 6 (e) of Part B you deal with certain classes (if films which are excluded from quota except under conditions. You do not mention that films used in educational institutes are also excluded. Is there much distinction between these educational films and the others which you have mentioned as regards a case on merits for being admitted. 1 feel that the Act was framed rather from the point of view of employment, or largely from the point of view of employment, and that these excluded classes were those which were considered not to give so much employment in the way of studio arrangements, and so forth? — Yes. 425. Now, do the films which you have mentioned here, which you are particularly concerned with seeing better treated, give more employment than the educational films? — At the present moment docu mentary film production gives more employment than educational film production. We cannot say for the future because there is obviously going to be a greai development of the educational as distinct from the documentary film. But I should say if the documentary film is given possibilities of developing and encouragement there is no reason why its personnel should not continue to be larger than the personnel employed in the making of educational films. But I would like to emphasise the distinction between the documentary film and the educational film. 426. You do not think there is such a strong case for changing in the case of the educational film? — I do not think there is such a strong case as there is for the documentary film because the educational film is largely concerned with distribution of a nontheatrical kind, that is outside the cinemas, whereas your documentary film, certainly at present and for several years to come, relies primarily upon public theatre distribution. 427. Yes. I suppose the line is not very hard and can, if a film is suitable, deal with an educational film as it can one of the other classes? — It can be done if necessary. 428. And apply under those provisions? — Yes. 129. Then in paragraph 7, Clause (a), you mention certain films depicting wholly or mainly news and current events which have an important cultural value.. Did these films involve studios and artists or were they merely a record of the ordinary course of events? —In this "actual list of films "B.C.C., The Voice of Britain " involved a certain amount of studio work and many paid artists. " Night Mail " involved a small number of studio scenes but most of it was actually taken on location with full location staff and equipment. " The March of Time " is only given as an example. Both " Shipyard " ami " Face of Britain " were wholly made in natural surroundings. I would point out that one of the fundamental principles of the documentary film is to take actual things and actual people in their actual environment and not to use studios except when required. 430. So that really you do not base your case on employment so much as cultural value? — Not so much from the point of view of studio employment, although documentary often entails large production units. 431. Yes. Then in paragraph 7, Clause (/), I notice that you admit natural history and scientific films, but 1 suppose these have very considerable cultural value, do they not? — Natural history and scientific films definitely. 432. Perhaps I misunderstood that? — 1 suggest that would come under the heading of cultural. 433. Oh, you want to see -them better treated?— Certainly. 434. You say, in paragraph 2 (a) of Part C, " Which possess national, Empire and cultural values." Yon propose that the same committee should deal with this field of documentary films. Have you considered the possibility of getting them assessed on the basis of minimum cost, oil her on the Form C basis or some other basis which would work automatically and not involve very difficult questions of opinion which would come up on the committee? — That has been considered very carefully. My association is of the opinion that you Cannot assess the cultural or aesthetic value of a documentary film in the terms of the money taken to produce it. It is perfectly possible for a doCU mentary film director and photographer to go away for a week-end's fishing and bring back material for a creative documentary film which max only have cost, shall we say, a matter of £150 or £200, on the other hand it i^ po tble to send out a wellequipped unit of several persons with expensive