Variety (July 1919)

; : -V;: *5l<4s . ■■ '■:■' • -TliMiMa ■/'• * ,'•■'':';'v'\- "' ': >. i'-^'v* ■"■ ■"' '.'•'■'?•,. '' OAiCi VARIETY >.-.■•■'..■':• :••■■,:••'-:■ f.? -■'■■■■.- ;<.: -,'.■•" : ".-.•':'■ ' £ '■■■ • ■'-!-'■••■'■ ■''• ; id* ' :: ., ; '-'-.';.^ ____._.].. | 1 I: r I" dcred by the actor, bat m a matter of principle, it la tho name, Is it hot? .'. « . . •• .. A. No, I don't think no. A surgeon can go to another surgeon and get a scalpel or a knife or a saw or axe or whatever he wants, and an actor, cannot go to another actor and get what he wants tor his act. • Q. But If he did carry and did prefer to oarry nla own Instruments and medicines he would be doing the same thing that the actor was doing In carrying his own stage proper- ties, wouldn't he* . - • ^ „ _ A. 1 don't know. I suppose he would, it he was a travellng niediolne man. -■■■■ ■■■ --. q. Are not the vaudeville theatres today of larger capaelty than those built In former years? A. Yes, sir. .. i . ' Q, And are not the newer theatres recently constructed more convenient to the actors as well as to the public In the matter of conveniences, such as bathrooms and dressing rooms 7 A. I think in some instances they are. I don't know that they are In the great majority or cases. I think a great many, at least some of the new theatres where I have played the dressing rooms were downstairs. I think that Is a heinous thing, myself. !."1:j \' q. You say new theatres, built within recent years, with dressing rooms downstairs? A. Yes, sir/ Q. Where, tor example? .. A. Mr. Poll's theatre In Scranton. They dress in the cellar. Q. Is that a new theatre? A. Comparatively new, yes. Within the last ten yean. Q. Ob, well, 1 don't consider a theatre built within the last ten years a new theatre. I am talking of theatres built in the last five years. < A. Of course, I don't know as to that, because I have not played very many. The theatres that I played in my last years In the show business were just the same as they were when I went into them. Q. Haven't the number of so-called small time theatres greatly Increased in number In the past five years? A. Yes. Q. In the theatrical business, Isn't any form of entertain- ment, whether it be a baseball game or picture show, or anything else in a way opposition to any other form of • entertainment in the same city? A. No, 1 think there is some difference, Sir. Goodman. I think, for instance, if there are two first-class vaudeville theatres in a town, instead of being opposition to each other that they are a help to each other. I think they ' create a vaudeville audience much more so than if there la only one. Q. Of course, it is a matter of opinion, but don't you think that there are some towns that cannot stand two vaudeville theatres and that there are others that can stand two or sometimes maybe more than two that only.have one? A. 1 think the majority of towns in America where there Is a vaudeville theatre of any*Blze at all can stand another one. * ■ Q. And you think that the small time theatres and that.- moving picture theatres do not take away certain patronage which the high-priced theatre might otherwise get? A. There isn't any doubt of that, Q. That they do or that they don't? A. That they do. • * ' Q. What is the general scale of admission to the so-called popular-priced or small time vaudeville theatre t A. I could not testify as to that now. Q. When you*wore on the stage? A. I think it was 10, 20 and 80 in the Poll times. That was about the smallest time there was. Q. Pantagas, was that a little better, a little higher-priced J A. I think It waB a little higher. Q. And the so-called big time or high-class vaudeville, what - was the scale of admission then? A. I think 25, GO and 76. <J. In the evenings? ■-. A. Evenings, and I think the matinees were 29. Q. You testified so far as your own act was concerned, that some of the time you played between 1000 and 1816 was small time and most of It big time? A. Yes. a few small time weeks. Q. Isn't it a fact that there are many acts that play small time theatres and then graduate or play on the big time theatres? ' A. You mean go from the small time theatres to the big time theatres? ( Q. Yes. A, 1 think the percentage is very, very small. Q. Where do they come from? Where do they get big time acts? . . A. God knows, I don't I think the atmosphere of the small time theatre does not make for the development of high class vaudeville material. The atmosphere is different. The duality of entertainment, and the quality or the appetites of the audience Is different, end the entire environment of the small time theatre is not conducive to it Q. While you are on that point, that is due to the fact that in one the man who buys a ticket pays 10, 20 or 80 oenta for It and the other case, the big time he pays 25 or 60 or 76 cents? A. No, I think .that is because the actor is obliged to do so many shows a day he does not have a chance to perfect his talent, it he has any. Q. All right, we will take that question up a little later. 'For the time bslng, aren't there actors that go from the big time to the small time? A. Yea, there are. Q. Will you define for us a big time theatre? A. A big time theatre In my Judgment has two essentials. Two shows a day is the absolute essential. The other is the quality and character Of the entertainment. Q, That is of the general bill? , , A. I mean the quality of the entertainment, the skill of the performers, the quality of the act that they do, the type of act that they do. - Q, It has nothing to do with the structural or architectural features of the theatre? A. I think it has, yes, something. Q. You mean that a big time theatre is built differently from a small time theatre? / A. I think it is built more elaborately, with more taste, better Judgment, and as you say, more convenient for the people who are playing In the theatre. q. Let me put a concrete case to you. You take the Marcus Loew Metropolitan Theatre in Brooklyn; have you seen It? A. No. Q. Well, do you happen to remember any one of Marcus Loew's theatres in New York that yot have seen? A. I have been In the American, I think. Q. The American Music Hall? A. Yes. q. 42d street and Eighth avenue? A. Yea i Q. Is there anything apparently different from that theatre which would prevent Marcus Loew, If he had the mind to give it, to put big time acts in that theatre? A. No: the mechanical equipment Is there. Q. That la whit I mean. k. But I think there would have to be a change in the make-up of the exterior of the theatre, the auditorium. Q. He probably would have to spend some money in beauti- fying it? A. Give it a different atmosphere. Q. Painting It and giving it a different atmosphere? A Yes, q. So that one of the essential differences between big time vaudeville and small time vaudeville is the atmosphere? A. Absolutely, I think. That la a personal opinion. Q. To give an actual example, a oartain egg purchased in Delmonlco'B Is a fresh egg, even when purchased la Child's, but the atmosphere Is different? A. Yes. Q. But the egg is the same? A. The prloe la different, too. Q. And the price la different; precisely. A. I never bought any egga at Delmonloo'a , "•'■ Q. The New York Times was none the less a first elan paper when it sold at one cent, because the New York Herald sold tor three cents? A. I don't think that la an exact parity. I don't think the New York Times was as high class a paper and as good a newspaper In every particular when It sold for one eent sa . when It sold for two cents. Q. You think the more they get for their product the better paper they can print? A. I think they can do more in the line of newagsttlng and make it a better newspaper. , ... •' Q. You think if the vaudeville managers charged more for their admissions they could afford to pay the actors more and give better bills? A. I think it the vaudeville managers would pay the sal- arlea that the scale ot admission at present existing Justifies, that they would Increase the quality of the entertainment, and increase the type, the artistic abilities ot the people who are in the business, and also give them what Is most essential to the success of any enterprise, a spirit of love'and affection , for the enterprise In which they are earning their living and which they have not now, the spirit of affection for the vaude- ville theatre which is non-existing in America. Q. You don't believe that spirit ot affection and enterprise was shown In the fact that Madden and Flupatrlck started out to work at I think you said 1100 or $160 a week? A. Yes. - - =■ ---•;•• Q. With three people In the act.-and finally, in the course of a tew years with only two people In the act, reached the point where they were getting atSOO a week? • A. It was a very cheap bargain. I don't think the element of affection entered Into it at all. ' ' Q. The element ot affection should never enter Into a busi- ness deal, should it? A. On the part of the men who are engaged in it, yes. q. It Is your Judgment then, that this business should be run with some affection connected with it? A A. I don't say that at all. I say the actors who are in the business should have a love for the business, instead of hating the people who are In it and welcoming a chance to get out of it * q. You don't think that Mr. Mountford's propaganda and speeches in the White Bats' meetings bad anything to do with the lack of affection and love for the managers? A. Not a bit ot It It had nothing to do with It It was there before he ever came to the country. It was there In 1000 Q.' You testified that the Colonial Theatre was once a first- class theatre under the management ot Percy Williams. You did not testify what it is now. I wish you would give us your opinion about that A. I think it is what Is known in the— Q. No, no, let us have your opinion. That is what I am trying to get . A. I think it is a very ordinary vaudeville theatre, not first class or big time at all. . • q. Aren't there any big time acts on the bills there? A. Occasionally, yes. q. Aren't they nearly aU big time acta? . - ^ A. No, I don't think they are. I think they are acta that are playing big time, but that does not make a big time act * ■ Q. Isn't the theatre artistically decorated? A. I think it is; yes, not bad. .. •- . .. . q. If an act Is good and plays the Colonial Theatre, even at a out salary, f*e act is still a big time act It it plays, big time theatres, isn t it? A. Yes, that is quite true. A cutting ot the salary does not necessarily make it a small time act, but it tends to make it a small time act Q. With reference to the elimination of bad acta and people who have tailed In the commercial business and bad some sort ot talent, about which you testified, do you believe that the White Rats would occupy the position of censor or licensors of those who desire to enter the vaudeville pro- f p RH1OQ 7 A. I taint that there ought to be some sort of examination on the part of the actors' organisation to say who shall become a member of It, yes, for the protection of the business. Q. Was it not a part of the union shop policy to keep such acts as they thought bad or impossible from entering the profession? • ' „. , ' . , A. No; as a matter of fact, a labor union has no choice in the matter as to whom it shall take into its membership at all. We were obliged to take In anybody and evsrybody who could lay claim to being In the theatrical business. We had no right to pick or choose at all. We were obliged to eliminate the system ot voting on members by black balls by the American Federation of Labor. Q. Isn't it a fact that it you succeeded in unionising vaude- ville performers and vaudeville theatres in this country your union would have been able to keep any man or woman out of vaudeville and out of employment It the union saw lit to do so? A. No. q. I call your attention to Respondent's Exhibit No. 8, an article In "Variety" of December 8, 1018, entitled "The Union Shop and Its Advantages to All," by Harry Mountford, and I read therefrom as follows: "The union shop means that no person oan work in any theatre unless he or she carries a fully paid-up card of the White Rats Actors' Union of America, or Associated Actresses ot America, or any ot Its affiliated organisations." And I ask you whether you still adhere to the statement that It you organized the vaudeville performers and the vaudeville thea- tres as closed shop, you could not keep an actor out of employment by keeping him out ot the union? A, We could not keep him out ot the union. We.would lose our charter Instantly we tried. ' • Q. Do you mean to tell us that anybody and everybody who claims to have any talent at all, without regard to his moral . qualifications or any other qualifications, can apply for mem- bership In the White Rats Aotors' Union, and must be ad- mitted? a. With the exception of the moral qualifications, yes. It Is defined in the constitution. q. Point out in thst constitution any provision whloh makes it absolutely Incumbent upon the Whits Rats Actors' Union to take In any and every one who claims to bs an actor? A. "Every white actor, performer or entertainer In the amusement world, male or female, of good moral charaeter, .<■?#[' \ I* and In mental and physical condition satisfactory to the lodge, irrespective of' religion or nationality, who Is now and baa been a bona fide actor and performer or entertainer In the amusement world tor at least one year and pursues such as his principal moans of livelihood. Is eligible to membership, provided such person-does not act in the capacity of partner or manager, sub-manager or agent, clerk or assistant to man- ager or agent or Is not financially Interested with any person who is engaged in such business, and provided such persons accept such acts or engagements over their own signatures or take part in the entertainment provided by virtue of said engagement but If at any time after election to membership, they shall become exclusively engaged In any other business outside of the theatrical profession, they shall ba known as non-aetlve members, having no right to legislate, discuss or vote on any questions Effecting the business of tho actor. Male applicants for membership, under Section 2 of this article must set forth the necessary qualifications In writing, signed by the applicant and endorsed by eleven male num- bers of/the order In full benefit, and who must know thst the applicant possesses the necessary qualifications for member- ship. Female applicants for membership In that portion of the order known as 'Associated Actresses of America' must '.- '','-'•:■•'. set forth all necessary qualifications In writing, signed by the ,-v;?; applicant and endorsed by two members of ths order la full benefit and who must know ths applicant possesses the neees- ' & sary qualifications tor membership." < '>,'-■?■%~ By Mr. Walsh: . ' ;m q. How are they elected? . -.-.-. .;•; ;,* -,-:.^ifS^. A. Their names are presented and voted upon la open meeting. . ' . * * ■ '.■ ""-"'■'.""^F By Mr. Goodman: •. — ; Q. Nevertheless, the White Rats Aetors' Union reserve tke »■ right if they deem a person does not possess the quallfloatioaa mentioned to keep that act out ot the union. A. No. ''.'•'.,,'■ ' '•■'' ' q. How do you explain that, that they don't? - : . - ■ A. If a man made application tor membership and there was any doubt about it, an investigating committee would be appointed on It, and that he would have full, complete powei to justify bla claim to membership, and we would have to ' take him In. Q. Suppose you did not though; suppose you did not take him in, what remedy would he have; how could be make you take him in? A. He would want to come in In the first place. Q. Is that,your best answer? , , ! *f&$l3 A. No; that is one of the answers, q. How could he force you to take him in? : V : A. He could go to the American Federation of Labor and; compel us to take him In under penalty ot the revocation ot our charter. Q. Bupposlng the American Federation of Labor, being your parent organisation, refused to compel you to take him in, what would this applicant for membership do? A. They could not refuse to force us to take him in. By our very existence in the American Federation of Labor we are obliged to take them In. They are covered by a .-/, { constitution and by-laws the same as wa are. q. Suppose a man did not want to Join your union, then what would happen 7 A. 1 cannot conceive ot a man not wanting to Join oar - union. ■•■- . .>■.;*■ Q. No, that is not the question. . A. You are asking me supposing a man, and I cannot make any such supposition. '• . q. You are president of this organisation and you went out to unionize all actors. You must have foreseen that some actors might not want to Join the union. Now. I ask you, today as president of the White RaU Actors' Union II you had succeeded in unionising all the thestres and thsy were all unionised today and the aotors were unionized, and one actor did not want to Join your union, wouldn't he be kept out of work? - ' . * A. No. q. In the unionised theatres. A. No, he could go to law, I believe, and compel us to taJta . him In. I believe that kind of a closed shop is called a ' conspiracy. •• . : .i •;-.;—-.■ , Q. Didn't the White Rats propaganda, by wblob I .mean Mr. Mountford's statements In "Variety." say time and time again; that aetors to procure work would have to be members ot toe. White RaU Actors' Union? A. Not to procure work. To work. .. ■ q. To work? '%-:■'• A. Quite true, yes.. - '•■ . •;«.0:.- ! "" .".•• •;..••• ■"■ „' : -' q. Now, I repeat, if an actor did not want to join the union and the union shop was in tone, bow would that actor get. work? A. Well, he would loin the union, i q. He would Join the union? In other words, be could not ", get work unless he did Join the union? ., A No, I don't say that he could not work. He would Join voluntarily. ••■■ ■ . .. Q. That Is. he would see he could not work and he would Join voluntarily. / .. ^ ^ L A. I don't know what bla mental processes'would be, bat he would Join, Just the same as Mr. Victor Herbert Joined the • American Federation ot Musicians, Just as a lawyer has to Join the Bar Association. Q. You mentioned the Bar Association. The Bar Associa- tion, Is that affiliated with the American Federation of Labor! A. No, but it la a labor union Just the same. Q. The Bar Association is a labor union? . .< A. Yes, and you have got to have your paid-up card before you can practice, too. ■„ i Q. I presume you are referring to the Bar Association all 1 over the United States. . A. No, I mean the courts. I don't mean the Bar Asso- ciation. The same way with the profession of medicines, you ■ have got to pass your State examination, which la controlled , by a board of unionized doctors before you oan get your v license to practice, which is your paid-up card. Examiner Moore: What happena to aetors expelled from " : the White Rats Union? The Witness: He Is given a fair trial, and if he figures he has not been tried fairly be can go to court and always get Justice. We have bad cases ot that kind where the man was Illegally expelled and was ordered to be restored to member- ship and was reinstated to membership. By Mr. Ooodman: „. ■" • q. Now, I call your attention to Respondent's Exhibit 8, entitled ''Till the New Year," appearing at page 16 of "Va- riety" of December 8. A. What year, Mr. Ooodman? q. 1016. In wblch this appears: "The Four Weeks for Which the Charter was Opened Expires Todsy, or at tho moment when this meets the eye ot ths reader In whatever part of the world he or she may be. «■■'•■ "And It was the original Intention that this should be the final day. "But so many protestations, so manr applications for an extension of time have been received by the Board of Di- rectors and myself, that after •wnsultatlon, the Board of Directors passed the following resolution:" Then follows a resolution concerning so extension of time: "So Ibat now there Is another four weeks added to the opening of the charter, and another four weeks in whloh the actor or actress can enter without the payment of back dues or of Twenty-five (26.00) Dollars Initiation. ™y: St. V: ' '-■■ • f PS