Variety (July 1919)

I - •■ ■■ ■ Ui ••■ •. . s ■ ■■ .•■.■.■.'■'..■.»-■"•■ - - .'■ '. "■ :, ■,.•'---•• : ..-■■•■ v ■■ VARIETY I &? Si ■ '■:.-" I Q. What happened under that administration to bring about a. deterioration almost to extinction? ; A. The fact that the mdmlnlBtratlon In power, Mr. Fogarty and Miy^ook and. the Board of Directors did absolutely nothing Kp better conditions In the vaudeville business. It was an absolutely supine, worthless organization ; It did abso- lutely nothing except to try to sell bonds to actors, bonds In the club house. By Mr. Walsh: ' *. - : Q. What Is there to these bonds In the club house? A. The White Rats Actors' Union, after Mr. Mountford got out, bought this house, and the Board of Directors, or Cook and Fogarty, sold bonds In It, and when I was elected to office, and when Mr. Mountford came bach, there .were, no more bonds sold. ever, and it van to protect the men who had their money tied up in these bonds in the club house, and which had been bought at the instigation of the previous administration, that we were forced to sell our lease on the ground to the gentlemen who now hold It, Mr. Albee and Mr. Keith; I mean 228 West 46th street. By Mr. Goodman: Q. Since Mr. Walsh has raised that feature of the case, did not the previous administration lend or advance or In some way or another transfer from the funds of the White Rats Actors' Union to the White Rats'.Realty Company, which was building the club house, the sum of $101,000 belonging to . the union? ... A. I could not tell you about that. That was before I came into.the organization. And I don't think there is any lawyer in the world can find out the Inside of that transaction. Q. It Mr. Mountford so testified, that would be sot A. Yea, he knew the facts better than any one. (At this time a short recess was taken.) By Mr. Goodman: Q. Mr. Fltzpatrlck, at page 45 of the minutes in the Pem- berton case, Mr. Mountford did testify that the White Rats Actors' Union, or White Rats of America as it was then known, paid $101,000 to the White Rats' Realty Company tor stock of the White Rats' Realty Company. And you testify If Mr. Mountford so testified that Is correct? A. Tea, sir. Q. Isn't it a fact that this deterioration to almost extinc- tion, 'to use your expression, amounted to a deterioration until the membership at the time Mountford came back in 1915 was not over 800 members? A. I think that is true, yes. Q. Then when Mountford came back, he came back for the purpose of rehabilitating the organization, did he not? A. Yes. Q. Working up new membership? A. Yes. Q. Putting pep and life into It? A. And getting back the old. - / Q. Is it not a fact that at that time, referring to October, 1915, or when Mr. Mountford came back, the White Rats Actors'Union was absolutely bankrupt? A. Yes. >* Q. Isn't it a fact that Mountford at that time urged the organization be thrown Into bankruptcy? A. I could not say as to that I was not on the— Q. If he so testified you would say It is true? A. It is true, yes, Q. I call your attention at page S44 of the Petnberton minutes to this testimony of Mr. Mountford. "I tried to go bankrupt because it was such a hopeless task. I fought tor It to go right into bankruptcy, because of the Immense amount of debts that were owing." Mr. Mountford having so testified you se,y that that was correct? • A. Yes. I think that refers to the club, the White Rats' Realty Company, and not the organization itself. Q. Isn't it a fact that the White Rats' Realty Company and the White Rats Actors' Union were known as one? A. No. Q. If Mountford so testified i« it a tact? A. I don't think he did testify; and If he did it is. not so. It never was run as one, not In my time. Q: No, no, I am talking of the time that brought this organization to the verge of bankruptcy. A. You mean before be came back? Q. Yes. ' • A. I could not tell you about that, Mr. Goodman. Q. I am not referring to your administration at all in reference to the bankruptcy conditions or the lack of member- ship. I am referring now to the time when Mountford came back—the condition pf the organization at that time. » A. I could not fell you about what went on then, because I was not on the Board of Directors and was fighting them from an entirely different angle. Q. Do you know that In addition to the $101,000 invested by the White Rats Actors' Union in the White Rats' Realty Company there were sold to members of the White Rats Actors' Union bonds in this White Rats' Realty Company to the amount of about $56,000. A. Yes. Q. And that about $64,000 of those White Rats' Realty Company bonds were pledged with the Mutual Bank by the ' White Rats Actors' Union to secure a loan made by the Mutual Bank to the White Rats Actors' Union amounting to about $49,000? A. I believe that Is so. Q. Were not the various -printed page advertisements In "Variety," commencing with. Respondent's Exhibit 1, which was published October 22, 1915, and the others which followed It all part of a propaganda to Increase membership of the White Rats Aetors' Union? A. I' cannot testify as to that which was before my own administration, but I believe that was the purpose, yes. Q. It was continued during your administration? | A. Y es. Q, And that was Its purpose? A. Yes. Q. And that was, of course, looking towards the establish- ment of the closed oi\ union shop? A. No, I don't think so, Mr. Goodman. So much stress has been laid upon the union shop Idea that everybody, apparently, believes that it was antecedent to the settlement of all these discussions. It was nothing of the kind. We wanted tho union shop simply and solely for the police power of the Board of Arbitration. Q. You have explained that, but the fact is that you wanted It; that is the point I am getting at A. Oh, yes, we wanted It. Q. And that this propaganda referred to the union shop and was for the purpose if you got a sufficient large member- ship of some day putting it over and establishing It? A. Among other things, yes. Q. Since you became president of the White Rats do you know the amount of the Indebtedness from the members to the organization for moneys lent by the organization to the members? A. I could not tell you that, but I think the audltor'o report would show that In the first anneal. Q. If Mr. Mountford testified at page 409 In the Petnberton case that the amount which the organization had lent mem- bers was $18,000, you would say that is true? A. That Is true, yes. Q. That Is from the auditor's statement, seventeen or eighteen thousand? . - ■ t - i . • A. That is correct 1 Q. Has any part'Of that money been repaid to the organi- sation? A. Very, very little, Mr. Goodman. _•■:_■: .. ' . Q. Did not the White Rata owe. In October, 1815, when Mountford came back, because of what had occurred previous to his returning to the organization, about $225,000? A. I don't.know about that I.presume It was about that amount ' Q. If Mountford so testified— A. It Is true, yea " . ■ •?. ■ Mr. Walsh: Did that include the bonds? The Witness: That included the bonds. Whatever he testi- fied to was true. - By Mr. Goodman. Q. At that time I think Mr. Mountford found that there was an overdraft at the bank of $85 and this indebtedness and. no money in the bank? . . A. That Is true, yes.. ..• ■ ■ Q. Had you any knowledge as to the number of members of , the White Rats Actors' Union when you became Big Chief? ■ A. No, I had not The only means of estimate I have was from, the auditor's report, which shows that approxi- mately'$79,000 was paid In In dues and reinstatements In six months. Q. That is from the time Mountford came in in October until April? ., A. Until the filing of the report, yes. And that the rate of— well, it you figured at $5.00 that would be 14,000 members. If you figured it at $10, it would be about 8,000 members. Q. What would you figure" It at? A. It was between eight and twelve. I think we were paying per capita tax on eleven thousand. I am not sun. Q. Well, about 12,000 members? A Yps sir Q. About how many members came Into the organization between April, 1916, and the date of the strike in the early part of 1916? A. I could not tell you that There was no record kept up to the calling of the strike. There was a steady growth until the notice was printed about no more White Rats being played. Q. They were coming In In goodly numbers, were they not? A. Yes, sir; they were. Q. In addition to the $74,000 that came In between October, 1915, and April, 1916, bow much would you say come into the organization between April, 1916, and the date of the strike? A. Oh, I could not judge that now, Mr. Goodman, without consulting the auditor's report for the year. Q. Will you consult the auditor's report and tell us? ■"> A. June 1, 1916, to June 1, 1917, regular members, $85,- 638.50. I Mr. Walsh: The membership would be that divided by five? The Witness: Yes. Cabaret branch, $1,008.50. Mr. Walsh: That would be divided by five to find the mem- * bership?" . The Witness: Yes. Chorus branch— . By Mr. Goodman: Q. I am talking now about the White Rate Actors' Union. A. That was a branch of the White Rate Actors' Union. That was per capita tax. We will say $86,000 divided by five. Q. About 7.200? .- A. Yes. This is from June 1. 1916, to June 1, 1917. Q. Then the additional number was about 3,600? A. Yes, that would be oloser. Q. So you had 12,000 the \ first six months from October, 1915, to April. 1916, and then about 8,600 between April, 1916, and the following June? • j^ Yes. Q And that would make $79,000 or thereabouts for the first six months' period from October, 1916, to April, 1918, and* $86,000 the balance of the period or a total of $116,000? A. Yes. '.__.. Q. Now this White Rate Club, was it ever a financial sue- . C88&T ■ r ' ' \ A. Until the managers announced that no more White Rate would be played and until the establishment of the •Armstrong Amusement Bureau across the street it was making a small amount of money each week which was set aside in a special account which was to take care of the bondholders. Q. Is It not a fact that the taxes of the club tor the years 1914 and 1915. and the water taxes for 1918 and 1914 and 1915 were not paid? - • _\\ V- A. You mean In my administration of the club or before? Q. I am talking of prior to your administration. , A. Ob, I think it was run at a loss. I am quite sure It was. Taxes were not paid and the water rent was not paid and the electric light bill was not paid and nobody was paid. The only time it made money, I believe, was during the period which I have mentioned, from the time Mr. Mountford came back until the events which I have narrated. Q. Have you a statement of the receipts and expenses of the club, I mean the club aside from the dues. Initiations, and so forth, for the period from October, 1915, to April, 1917? A. Mr. Mountford has, I am sure. Q, Who has the books of the White Rats Realty Company, or'where'are they? __ _ A, I could not tell you. They may be In the custody of the Referee. I don't know, I am sure. ■ „ . _._ ; . ■ Q. In any event, while you were President and Big Chief of the White Rats Organization, did the club, separate and apart from the union, do very much more than take care of expenses? • ■. . A Yes, we had the special account which was to take care of the bondholders. I think we had it up one time as high as $11,000. _ , . Q. Can you Btate what excess over your expenses the club earned during the six months' period, from October, 1915, to April, 1916? A. What excess over the expenses? Q. Yes, what balance did it have over and above expenses,/ if any, during that six months period? A. I could not tell that without reference to the books, Mr. Goodman.. I know that we wore getting along very welt, slowly and surely, until this thing happened and the bottom •dropped out of it. • „ ■ _ . Q. Do you know In whose name the stock of the White Rate Realty Company was Issued? A. Originally? Q. The stock bought with funds of the White Rats Actors' Union? A. No, I do not. » Q. You say originally. Do you know in whose name it was held at any time? A. Mr. McCree and Mr. North and Mr. Mountford and my- , self. Mr. Walsh: Did you own It or what? The Witness: Ob, no, we simply held It By Mr. Goodman: Q. Will you look at Article 6 of the Constitution of the White Rats Actors' Union, which reads, "All funds must be deposited and all property must be brought, held and sold In the name of the order." Was that provision of the Con- stitution changed so as to permit the stock of the White Rats Realty Company to be held in the individual names of the members? A. I could not tell you that, Mr. Goodman. Q. Were you a director of the White Rats Realty Company at any time? A. Yes, I was. «... .•■--. £i\. ■ i i ' i——-■ ■■' - %iSg& I Q. During what period? . -.' ■ -_,..■*» «..♦»,. A. During the period of my incumbency as president of the ° r o a Vurlng' your incumbency in office wore any of the funds of the White Rats Actors' Union used to pay any of the debts of the White Rats Realty Company? q! Nor any of its obligations or expenses? q' Were'any of the funds of the White Rats Realty Cpm- Dany or any moneys taken in for the use of the club used to pay any of the expenses of the White Rats Actors' UnionT" A. The accounts were absolutely.separate. . • Q Will you swear that none of the funds belonging to we White Rats Realty Company were used In connection with the strike that subsoouently occurred? AT To the best of my knowledge and belief none were used: "VWin ylftr?°?o refresh your recollection? Isnt It a! fact that for one thing the furniture of the club house was mortgaged by a chattel mortgage and $5,000 was raised under Sat cnlttel mortgage and that $5,000 was spent In the strike? A. Yes, that is true. Personally, I always figured that everything that was in the club belonged to the Union, my- self. That was my personal opinion. I still think so. Q. During your regime was there a separate bank account kept for the White Rate Actors' Union and the White Rate Realty Company? Q. Are 6 yoil'acquainted 'with the facta In connection with the Associated Actors Company or is that something that oc- curred before your time? A. I know nothing about that. ' . . . , „ ■ . Q. Do you know whether the White Rats' Actors' Union In- vested $6,000 to the Associated Actors' Company In 1908 or 1909? .','..' Q. lt d Mr"°Mountford so testified you would say that it was. bo, would you? ...... ,,._.. .'..'...j s .„.-. ,^.. : ,v;'.;. O,! Do you W Jtnow anything' about the Incorporation of the White Rats Publishing Company in ~09? q! The advertisements with regard to that levy and the levy itself, was the result of that referendum that you spoke about before? ' . • / Q." And did not Variety, or I think it was The Player con- tain an advertisement of the White Rate Actors' Union re- questing these levy contributions to be sent either to you or to Mr. Mountford? Q/And these moneys were sent to you or toftr. Mountford^ were they not? ' ■ *, --—■ ' . -Jr.-:V.* a'a A. Some of them were. I think some, were sent direct to the office. ..' >j Q. And were not those moneys deposited in the personal and Joint account of you and Mr. Mountford? A. They were. Q. In the Greenwich Bank? A. Yes, sir. . • • .... 1 . '"'..-_ ■ ., ' Q. And was not that contrary to Article 6 of your Consti- tution? • --•! ■ " ;• ;, A. That was done with the full knowledge and approbation of the International Board. > Q. At that time who were the members of the International Board that authorized you to deposit funds of the-White Rats Actors' Union to the personal account of yourself and Mr. Mountford? . ' ' A. I cannot give you all the names now. Mr. Dolan, Mr. Marco, Mr. Edwin Archer, Mr. McCree, Mr. Delmore. Mr. Theodore Babcock was a member of the Board, too. I cannot recall the other names offhand. r , Q. Was there a resolution of the International Board authorizing such deposits or do you want us to understand that they had knowledge of it? • . _,.;, A. Yes. " ' '.•■:' . . Q. Which Is itt • A. Pull knowledge of it ■."":■ Q. But there was not any formal authorization by the In- ternational Board? 7 * A. I cannot recall now, without looking it up. I know everybody knew about It on the International Board and ap- proved of It Q. Was the deposit of these funds made In your name with the words, "Trustee, Agent, President" or any other repre- sentative capacity attached, or were the deposits just made in your name and Mr. Mountford's? A. I cannot recall that now. I can find that out later.. Q. By whom were checks signed that drew moneys out of this account? Q. Did It require both" signatures? A. No. If I signed a check, I signed It James William Fltzpatrlck, or Harry Mountford and James William Fltz- patrlck, and he did the same. Q. So that Mr. Mountford could draw any part or all of those funds without consulting you? A. Yes. Q. Or the members of the organization or the International Board? A. Yes. Always subject to the fact that I could ask all about It. And the Board, also. Q. How many checks did you draw on that levy account? A: I could not tell you offhand, now. Q. Did you or Mr. Mountford do more of the signing of checks .on that account? A. I think Mr. Mountford did. Q. About what percentage of the amount In that levy ac- count In your personal names was withdrawn by Mr. Mount- ford since? A. I could not tell you that Q. Well, what percentage would you say you withdrew on your check of this $12,000? ■A-Oh. a very small percentage I think It was less'than $1,000, but I cannot be positive about that, without going and hunting It up. Tho checks for that account were stolen from the offices on 54th street Q. You were not asked the question, but I am perfectly will- ing that It should stand, only I would like to warn you to please answer questions. A. All right. , Q. Can you tell now what Mountford did with the moneys that he withdrew from this account? A. To tho best of my knowledge and belief he paid the legitimate expenses entailed by the strike taking care of the board of pickets who had no money, transportation and all Incidentals that come up in the conduct of a strike. Q. How were these monoys paid to you or Mr. Mountford, in • cash or check, money orders or Bow? A. In every way. Q. In every way ? A. Yes. ~~ Q. Who received most of the moneys that were sent In? A. I" think most of them were sent Into New York. The ones that were sent to me In Boston, If they were money orders 1 simply endorsed them and forwarded them to New York. Q. You at that time were not In New York? . :r^ ,i^*-