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430 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY from the group. However, he was present at this particular thing, and this is my only knowledge of Collins as a Communist. You see, it is one thing to believe or know casually that a number of people are Communists, but it is another thing to be able to say definitely they are party members unless I have seen them at a meeting of some kind. I couldn't testify to that. Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you sit in a Communist Party meeting at any time with Richard Collins ? Mr. Dmytryk. Only in this particular affair. I might comment— I would like to comment here on this particular thing. A person can be in the Communist Party for a long time, much longer than I was, and still not know definitely, positively, that many people are Communists, because these groups are kept fairly separate. And un- less a man moves around a great deal and gets in different neighbor- hood groups he doesn't know the members of another group. It is possible for him to work alongside another Communist, to know by his attitude and by the remarks he makes and how he talks that he is a Communist, and yet not ever know positively. There is no secret handshake or password, and I have never heard anybody come up to me and say, "I am a Communist." It just doesn't happen. And you can suspect 50 people or 100 people, but you cannot be sure unless you have worked with them in a meeting. Mr. Tavenner. Now, for instance, Richard Collins, to give an ex- ample of what you are speaking of, testified that he had been a member of the Communist Party in Hollywood for around 9 years; that he attended meetings about twice a week—an average of twice a week during all of that period. And yet you never sat in a meeting with him. Mr. Dmytryk. Never sat in a meeting with him outside of the incident I mentioned. Mr. Tavenner. Sterling Hayden was one who testified that he had attended a number of meetings. Did you ever sit in a meeting with him? Mr. Dmytryk. I was very surprised when I heard he was a Com- munist—when he admitted being a member of the Communist Party. I had no idea he was even close. Mr. Tavenner. Larry Parks has testified he was a member of the Communist Party and attended meetings. Did you ever attend a meeting at which he was present ? Mr. Dmytryk. No. As a matter of fact, at the time of the original hearings I personally was convinced Larry Parks was one of those— and there were several in the 19—who was not a Communist. Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Meta Rosenberg testified as to the attendance at a number of meetings. Did you ever attend a meeting with her? Mr. Dmytryk. I never did. Mr. Tavenner. The 24 persons you have named are persons known to you to be members of the Communist Party ? Mr. Dmytryk. Yes. Mr. Tavenner. You were a member, I believe, of the Council of the Hollywood Arts, Sciences, and Professions. Mr. Dmytryk. Yes. Actually at two different periods, one an early period—I can't remember exactly when, way back in the middle 1940's, I believe—I was on the board. I actually attended, I believe, only one meeting at that time, although I may have taken part in