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1458 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY like that, thrown in jail and the other 90 percent, presumably, would not. I think this would be a serious mistake, because the Communist Party has, as one of its basic teachings, that every Communist must be a leader. Every Communist is a potential leader, regardless of whether he is a rank and file in his unit, or what he is. He is taught at all times to assume leadership and how to assume leadership. He is taught to, if necessary, work on his own initiative. I know that when I was in we were taught a considerable amount of underground woi'k, how to break the large units up into small units, how to convey messages, and so on and so forth. I don't think it is safe to assume that because you get a certain group of recognized leaders and put them in jail, and possibly convict them, that you have even scratched the surface as far as breaking up the party is concerned. Quite the contrary, you have merely brought out a new group of possibly younger and more competent leaders who have awaited this oppor- tunity to demonstrate their ability for the Communist Party. Mr. Jackson. During the course of your testimony you also set forth the circumstances of a meeting you attended on which occasion you waited on a very prominent street corner for several hours. You said at that time the only person who was likely to have known the meeting place, or who did know it, was Ked Hynes. Would you further identify Mr. Hynes so there will be no misunderstanding. Mr. Ashe. Mr. Hynes was—I believe he had the rank of lieutenant in the Los Angeles Police Department, was in charge of what they call the antisubversive detail, better known as the Red squad. I am quite sure at that time that he was fully cognizant of everything that went on in the Communist Party; in fact I even know his source of information. I didn't know it then. Mr. Jackson. His presence is sadly missed today, I might say, Mr. Ashe. Does a Communist Party member bear any allegiance to the United States of America or any of its institutions ? Mr. Ashe. None whatever. Mr. Jackson. Can a Communist be objective in his teachings? Mr. Ashe. No. Mr. Jackson. Can a Communist labor leader have any obligation to the people he is presumed to represent in his negotiations? Mr. Ashe. No. Except incidentally, if it serves his purpose, for which he is really there, namely to carry out the program of the Com- munist Party, whatever that may happen to be at the moment. Mr. Jackson. You said in answer to a question directed to you by Mr. Doyle, that probably the argument you used in recruiting indi- viduals into the party was that the Communist Party stood for the best interests of the working people. That statement, of course, is no longer true in your own mind ? Mr. Ashe. It wasn't true then. Mr. Jackson. I stand corrected. How long, in your opinion, Mr. Ashe, would free speech exist in this country if the Communist revolu- tion came to pass? Mr. Ashe. Just long enough to organize a large force of uniformed goons. Mr. Jackson. How long would freedom of assemblage exist under a Communist regime? Mr. Ashe. About the same time.