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COMMUX'ISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1537 Mr. Townsend. These were the groups I had reference to in answer- ing one of Mr. Doyle's questions. The all-guild committee, I believe, was the organization formed in 1917 by the majority of the member- ship of the Screen Writers' Guild to defeat the other factions, the Mr. Jackson. Progressive caucus \ Mr. Townsend. The progressive caucus, yes; and it succeeded, as I remember, entirely. Mr. Jackson. Was the progressive caucus within the Screen Writ- ers' Guild an organization as such in that it had a chairman and officers of the caucus within the guild ? Mr. Townsend. I'm sorry, I can't remember that, definitely. I know that it was composed not only of just Communists. There were others in it. Mr. Jackson. Well, without respect to the membership or nonmem- bership of those who were particularly active in the progressive cau- cus, who took the leading parts in the caucus, itself, within the guild ? Mr. Townsend. Again, I am quite sure it was John Howard Law- son. Mr. Jackson. In your opinion and in light of your own experience out of your own observations, is it your feeling that the Communist Party should be outlawed as such? Mr. Townsend. Again, I think that is more in the area of the com- mittee. I don't know, frankly; I don't know whether outlawing the party and sending it underground will only bring it up somewhere else in another form. As I said to Mr. Doyle, I think if there w T as a way to make the party show its face to the American people, this might be more effective. I don't know. Sir. Jackson. What proportion—out of your experience, again— what proportion of the party is above ground and what part is below ground at the present time ? Mr. Townsend. I have no knowledge of that because I have had no contact along those lines. Mr. Jackson. As of the period during which you held membership in the Communist Party, what proportion of its activities were above ground and in no way secret? Mr. Townsend. Well, very little, I would think. I can't think of Mr. Jackson. Very little above ground? Air. Townsend. Yes. I can't think of any activity, offhand. You mean in which the Communist called himself a Communist? Mr. Jackson. That's right. Mr. Townsend. I can't think of any such thing. Mr. Jackson. Isn't the distinguishing feature as between above ground and underground whether or not the activities are carried on in the open or are carried on in a cloak-and-dagger atmosphere of se- crecy and conspiracy ? Mr. Townsend. Yes; I see what you mean. Mr. Jackson. Did you have any knowledge while you were a mem- ber of the various groups or cells to which; you were attached of par- allel work being done in the way of the transmittal of information through the underground, of espionage, of courier services, as dis- tinguished from the cell organization ? Mr. Townsend. No ; I had no knowledge of that.