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COMMUNISM IX HOLLYWOOD MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 2067 where for any kind of thing that would help us out. So, there was a certain common examination among these people with respect to that particular problem, which was, I remember, the essence of all meet- ings, and my sole interest in them. To that degree, why, I found at that time some, what I felt were, fairly helpful and valid ideas. I don't know whether they were the ideas ;is such or simply the oppor- tunity to discuss them and air them and discuss what to us was a very important problem. Mr. Jackson. In the light of what has since transpired, do you feel that there is any field of free expression and self-determination for the artist in communism? Mr. Fleury. No; I certainly do not. In fact, I found that, I think, one of the reasons why a very conscious and avid interest never de- veloped on my part in following this thing through was because the basic philosophy in approaching the problem of an artist and his role in society was entirely counter to that which I was able to think or that made sense. Mr. Jackson. What steps were ever taken by anyone with respect to your work in the discussion group which might lead you to believe that an effort was being made to influence your work, to give it, shall A\e say. a social message? Mr. Fleury. Absolutely none, sir. Mr. Jackson. There was no effort on the part of anyone? Mr. Fleury. No, sir. Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Fleury has stated that she had disagreements with Biberman Mr. Fleury. Yes; I had heard about them, too. Mr. Jackson (continuing). Over the approach of the artist to his work. I wondered whether von held any discussion with Mr. Biber- man or anyone else in which that philosophy, as it pertains to the artist and his work, was advanced. Mr. Fleury. Yes; I think that on occasion the orthodox view, be- cause naturally it was also prominent in the literature which—I can't even remember—Plekhanov; I don't remember who it was; he was supposed to have been the great orthodox Marxist boy on art criti- cism. And this to me was just simply, if you wdll pardon the expres- sion, a red rag, because I didn't believe it. Mr. Jackson. Did he address at any time a discussion group? Mr. Fleury. Oh, no. He is dead long ago, 1890, or something- like that, or right at the time of the so-called Russian Revolution. Mr. Jackson. Pardon my abysmal ignorance on that point. Mr. Fleury. That's all right. Mr. Jackson. Was it the custom to invite people in to talk to the discussion groups on occasion on various phases of art ?. Mr. Fleury. As I remember, no. This was all sort of a self- contained tiling right within itself. We would bounce off each other as sounding boards. Mr. Jackson. I assume that, in common with many of the Ameri- can people, a great number of people, you followed the activities of this committee so far as the witnesses we have had before us are concerned ( Mr. Fleury. In a general way. yes. Mr. Jackson. Have you at any time met any of those who have been called as witnesses before the committee?