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284 COMMUNISM IN MOTION PICTURE INDUSTRY
The Chairman. In other words, Mr. Disney, Communists out there smeared you because you wouldn't knuckle under ?
Mr. Disney. I wouldn't go along with their way of operating. I insisted on it going through the National Labor Relations Board. And he told me outright that he used them as it suited his purposes.
The Chairman. Supposing you had given in to him, then what would have been the outcome ?
Mr. Disney. Well, I would never have given in to him, because it was a matter of principle with me, and 1 fight for principles. My boys have been there, have grown up in the business with me, and I didn't feel like I could sign them over to anybody. They were vulnerable at that time. They were not organized. It is a new industry.
The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Smith.
Mr. Smith. How many labor unions, approximately, do you have operating in your studies at the present time?
Mr. Disney. Well, we operate with around 35 — I think we have contacts with 30.
Mr. Smith. At the time of this strike you didn't have any grievances or labor troubles whatsoever in your plant?
Mr. Disney. No. The only real grievance was between Sorrell and the boys within my plant, they demanding an election, and they never got it.
Mr. Smith. Do you recall having had any conversations with Mr. Sorrell relative to communism ?
Mr. Disney. Yes, I do.
Mr. Smith. Will you relate that conversation ?
Mr. Disney. Well, I didn't pull my punches on how I felt. He evidently heard that I had called them all a bunch of Communists — and I believe they are. At the meeting he leaned over and he said, "You think I am a Communist, don't you," and I told him that all I knew was what I heard and what I had seen, and he laughed and said, "Well, I used their money to finance my strike of 1937," and he said that he had gotten the money through the personal check of some actor, but he didn't name the actor. I didn't go into it any further. I just listened.
Mr. Smith. Can you name any other individuals that were active at the time of the strike that you believe in your opinion are Communists ?
Mr. Disney. Well, I feel that there is one artist in my plant, that came in there, he came in about 1938, and he sort of stayed in the background, he wasn't too active, but he was the real brains of this, and I believe he is a Communist. His name is David Hilberman.
Mr, Smith. How is it spelled? ^
Mr. Disney. H-i-1-b-e-r-m-a-n, I believe. I looked into his record and I found that. No. 1, that he had no religion and. No. 2, that he had spent considerable time at the Moscow Art Theater studying aft direction, or something.
Mr. Smith. Any others, Mr. Disney?
Mr. Disney. Well, I think Sorrell is sure tied up with them. If he isn't a Communist he sure should be one.
Mr. Smith. Do you remember the name of William Pomerance, did he have anything to do with it ?
Mr. Disney. Yes, sir. He came in later. Sorrell put him in charge as business manager of cartoonists and later he went to the Screen