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William II. Swanson, Direct Examination. 319
gathered in a room up there. Mr. Blackton was presiding, 1 and acting as spokesman.
Q. He was connected with what company? A. The Vitagraph Company. We came up and outlined the ideas that we would like to do in the way of forming an organization.
Q. That is, you went up with these others? A. Went up with this committee of two others, Mr. Peckham, of Cleveland, and Mr. MacDonald, to visit the manufacturers, and outline the purposes of our getting together, and Mr. Blackton stated that the manufacturers would be very glad to work in harmony with the exchange men, in fact, become a part of an organization with them for the betterment of the business, and they requested us to retire from the room and to form an organization and draft our bylaws and constitution and so forth, and to submit it to them, and they would consider whether they would join, or not. We retired as a committee, down to the association's meeting room, and then several of us retired again for the purpose of drafting by-laws and so forth, and submitted them the next day to these manufacturers. They joined the organization.
Q. That was at the Buffalo meeting? A. No, sir; that was at the Pittsburgh meeting.
Q. State whether or not there was any discussion of patents at the different meetings, or was it a talk — A. (Interrupting) : Oh, yes, patents were always discussed at those meetings.
Q. And how about improvement of price and other business conditions? Was there any discussion about that? A. Yes, sir? At the Film Service Association meetings, the film manufacturers always attended, but they segregated themselves into a different part of the room. Mr. . Dyer did most of the explaining regarding patents and the ideas of what they were going to do under those patents. They were going to charge more for the film and more for the projecting machines under those patents. He further explained that we must always bear in mind that we were not to put too much stress on the patents, however, — that the proposition that they had formed was 95 per cent, commercial and 5 per cent, legal. That is, that this formation was 95 per cent, commercial and 5 per cent legal. That they had patents, but that there had always been more or