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320 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES
On December 8, 1045, the committee representing the A. F. of L. executive council visited the Paramount studio on the recommendation of practically all of the witnesses who had appeared before us, on the premise that Paramount was closest and that it was one of the most compact of the larger studios. We were greatly impressed by what we saw in the carpenter shop and in the property sliop at Paramount, and I think it would be well for the members of this committee to go out there, if they have not already done so, and get that graphic visual picture in their minds on the difference between the lATSE property man or miniature set builder and a carpenter. We found that in the carpenter shop, which had every aspect of being a mill, they were turning out furniture. There were large and small planers. There were saws of every description. There was lumber of every description, and the men were busily engaged and seemed happily employed.
AV^ithout leaving the building, Mr. Chairman and counsel, we moved to another section in that same building and we walked into the propertyman's domain, and we saw there handsaws, handsaws, hammers, nails, screw drivers, and everything that goes to make up what we thought, before we came out here, was the carpenter's trade, and we learned through historical precedent was the propertyman's trade and the lATSE. We saw there those miniature sets being built, and the puppets, and all of the other things that go into this property's man's set-up.
And so it was most difficult, despite the fact that Mr. Birthright is a barber and Mr. Knight a car man and myself a letter carrier, most difficult to set up a definite line of demarcation as between property men and carpenters. And I think that description, Mr. Chairman, of what we saw at Paramount, in this particular phase of the picture^ is an answer to that question.
]\Ir. Kex\rns. Proceed with the next question.
Mr. McCann. Are you satisfied with that ?
Mr. Price. I will take it.
Mr. JMcCanjst. Did the carpenters do the permanent construction?
Mr. DoHEKiY. Did they or do they ?
Mr. McCann. Did the carpenters do the permanent construction?
Mr. DoHERTY. We were given to understand by the various witnesses that they did do permanent construction, but we found some instances where the lATSE were making boats which were big enough to float in the ocean. I suppose they were not permanent, but they were boats made of lumber.
Mr. McCann. Was it your idea that they should continue to build boats ?
Mr. DoHERTY. If they were within the purview or the definition of propertyman's rights and allocations, yes.
Mr. McCann. Was it your idea — now, these are questions of mine — was it your idea that they should build tables and chairs if they were within the purview of property rights?
Mr. DonERTY. I think that was the accepted practice in the studio.
Mr. McCan'n. Did the carpenters do the construction work on exterior sets ? This is a question by Mr. Price.
]Mr. DoHERTi-. Do they do the exterior work?
Mr. McCann. Did the carpenters do the construction work on exterior sets ?