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1054 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES In the third paragraph on page 3 j'on say: This dispute was an issue in the discussions. The carpenters union was assist- ing tlie painters union in its effort to capture jurisdiction over set decorators, but in so doing its purpose was also to take over work wliicli liad for many years been done by the lATSE. Now, Mr. Johnston, I would like for you to defend that statement and give us some evidence in support of it. Mr. Johnston. Where is that, exactly? Mr. McCann. At the bottom of the third paragraph on page 3. Mr. Kearns. It begins with the words "We struggled." Mr. Johnston. Well, that was tlie information which I gleaned from the conversations I had with Mr. Walsh and Mr. Sorrell at the time, namely that this ran much deeper than merely a dispute over the 47 set decorators. There was a question going back to 1926. I believe, as to an award between the carpenters union and the lATSE. As a matter of fact, there had been previous controversies over this and previous labor difficulties over it, going back to some time in the twenties and again recurring in the early thirties. Mr. McCann. Mr. Johnston, are you not aware of the fact that the lATSE, according to the testimony of the labor relations experts of the producers, has for several years been encroaching upon the work jurisdiction of every other union in Hollywood, including electricians, the lAM, the carpenters, and the painters? Mr. Johnston. I understood while there that all were encroaching on each other as to their jurisdiction. There were constantly new problems arising and who should take care of those problems. For instance, sound equipment, that was new. relatively new, who should take care of the sound equipment? Should it be the electricians or should it be the lATSE. Every time a new category arose of course there was conflict and controversy as to who should collect dues from whom and who should do what work. Now there is nothing new about that and I think that conflict has been going on for many, many years. I believe that all are responsible for it. Mr. Kearns. Just a minute on that point. Counsel. Was not that the reason why you said definitely there when you were in on the pic- ture that they should close down the studios until they decided juris- diction ? Mr. Johnston. Why, of course. I have said constantly all the way along that the only thing to do was to close the studios and let these warring unions battle amongst themselves and find out who had jurisdiction, who collected dues from whom. My opinion has always been that it is foolish to try to operate under the conditions that they have been trying to operate at Hollywood since I have been in the industry. Mr. Kearns. Is it not true that Mr. Mannix supported you very strongly there? Mr. Johnston. Yes, Mr. Mannix supported me at times and at other times I think he did not support me. In other words, I think there was a difference of opinion as to what should be clone. Consistently since the Miami decision I have advocated that if the unions could not agree on jurisdiction and if there was labor troubles to close the studios.