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1064 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES Now, Mr. Chairman, I have not received any questions to ask on behalf of the Lawyers, other than Mr. Cobb. If any of the Lawyers over there who may have questions will bring them over to Mrs. Locher, 1 will turn the examination over to you. Mr. Cobb. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw the questions that were sub- mitted to counsel. Mr. Keaens. Mr. Johnston, at the top of page 2 of your statement you say: In the bitter interunion feuds, the workers become the victims in the maneuvers of labor leaders, and the producers are always caught in the middle. You are more or less insinuating there that in order to operate, it is necessary to make a deal with somebody in order to do business; is that correct? Mr. Johnston. No ; I don't think I would infer it would be neces- sary to make a deal with someone. Mr. Kearns. Well, to get a contract with someone, we will use that term. JNIr. Johnston. Well, of course, with every labor union you have a contract with them; usually once a year, if you make that kind of a deal. Mr. Kearns. There are some unions olit there without a contract. Mr. Johnston. Very few. Mr. Kearns. But there are some without a contract. Mr. Johnston. Very few, but usually we have a contract. Seman- tics of the word "deal" implies something under the table, and I do not think that is essential to operate wnth unions at any time. Mr. Kearns. But you had to do business with somebody in order to keep the studios open then? Mr. Johnston. Of course. Mr. Kearns. Now, you mentioned this three-man committee had 60 days in order to produce. Was that 30 days or 60 days? Mr. Johnston. My understanding was it was 60 days. I may be incorrect. Mr. McCann. Mr. Chairman, the first 30 days were given to the unions in Hollywood to try to adjust their own differences, and if they were not able to adjust them within the first 30 days then the three- man committee was to come in and permanently adjust them during the next 30 days. Mr. Johnston. That is right, Mr. Chairman, it was a 60-day period. Mr. Kearns. You are naturally familiar with the way the three- man committee operated and the limited number of trips they took to the studios to decide the jurisdictional lines of dispute there? Mr. Johnston. I purposely stayed out of that, Mr. Chairman. I did not go to Hollywood. I did not talk at any time to any of the three members on the committee, nor did I talk at any time to the warring presidents of the international unions involved. I felt this committee of three should have a free field to make their decision, without any discussions or without nny intimated pressure from me. So I had no knowledge of what they did. I did not discuss it with them either before or after. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kearns. You were also aware of the fact that the carpenters were doing the exclusive millwork and trim work prior to the directive ? Mr. Johnston. Yes, that is right.