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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1101 Now at no stage was there anything which touches upon a conspiracy with anybody in our efforts to keep the studios open. Our effort was to get men to fill jobs. Now if one group got a little more predatory than the other at a given time and made it a little more difficult we naturally went to the place where we could get it, not as a matter of conspiracy, but as a matter of expediency. Mr. GwiNN. Well, you were faced with questions all the time in that period, if your experience is the same as in other jurisdictional fights, of determining who would and who would not work, were you not? Mr. Rathvon. That is right, but we went to bed with no union in the process of doing that. Mr. GwiNN. The objection in this controversy lies in the fact that the carpenters union refused to let you try to get other workers to take their place, is that correct ? Mr. Rathvon, Would you put that question again ? I am not quit© sure that I understand it. Mr. GwiNN. Since the carpenters were for all intents and purposes a monopoly in that area, they tried to keep you from getting other carpenters, did they ? Mr. Rathvon. They refused to work. The carpenters union would furnish us nobody. Mr. GwiNN. But all this trouble we hear about, the violence and even bloodshed that took place—wasn't there bloodshed at some point ? ISIr. Rathv'on. There was indeed. ]Mr. GwiNN. It grew out of the fact that the carpenters tried to keep other people from working? Mr. Rathvon. You see, this strike was presumably settled. It broke out in 1940, was presumably settled, and then the failure of the car- penters to live up to the settlement launched the strike a second time, so it was really a continuous strike with a period of truce, whereas we speak of it as the 1945 strike and the 1946 strike. The violence occurred in the 1945 strike which was an earlier period than this particular thing I have been questioned about, which was in the 1946 strike. Mt. Gwinn. The carpenters were the only union striking ? Mr. Rath:\'0n. No. Mr. Gwinn. Wlio else was striking ? Mr. Rathvon. The strike began ostensibly over 43 set decorators. Actually the controversy in the background, which came out eventually, was the carpenters and the lA. There were maneuvers which started the strike in 1945 that gave no indication where the battle lines were drawn, but it came out very quickly that the support behind the scenes of the strike was Mr. Hutcheson. The obvious leader of the strike was Mr. Sorrell, who represented the painters, the set decorators and other members of the carpenters union. At that time the carpenters were not members of the conference. Mr. Gwinn. Finally, the point I want to bring out here is that where you had 100 percent or total monopolistic control of all the men in the craft, such as carpenters—and now you include painters— you had an unwillingness on the part of that monopoly that anyone else should work in your studios? Mr. Rathvon. That is correct. 67383—48—vol. 2 5