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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1109 ]\Ir. McCann. Had you approved or authorized this policy in advance ? Mr. Ratiivon. The policy I had approved and authorized in ad- vance, I can say in two parts: One, that we would take such steps as seemed necessary to keep our studios in the fullest operation possible. Point 2: We would take no steps that had not been pre- viously approved by counsel. Mr. Kearns. That was an agreement of all the producers? Mr. Kathvon. He asked me as to a matter of policy, and I said that was the policy we followed continuously. Mr. AIcCann. This is from Mr. Zorn. I submit this question: Who made the sets "hot," the carpenters or the producers? Mr. Katiivon. They were made "hot'' by one or the other union. Now, if he is referring to the September situation, it was the carpen- ters. Mr. McCann. I assume he is referring to the September situation. Mr. Rath VON. The carpenters made them "hot." Mr. ]\IcCann. Will you explain why they made them "hot" ? Mr. Ratiivon. Because they refused to work on sets on which the set erectors had done certain actions which they claimed to be their own. I might explain that between the carpenter work of erecting parts of sets and then putting them on the stage and putting them to- gether, constantly over many years has caused the most disputes over the minutia of the work. Mr. Kearns. Overlapping jurisdiction? Mr. Rathvon. During the period just preceding this "hot" incident, we were under a truce while we were waiting to see what Mr. Casey, who was deciding this thing, was going to do. When that period ended, the sets which became "hot," because the carpenters refused to do what they had previously been willing to do under Casey—the sets immediately became "hot" because the carpenters made them "hot." We laid the carpenters off as fast as they refused to work on these sets, and we assigned other carpenters to these sets, apparently to lay them off. Mr. McCann. I think you have answered the question Mr. Levy proposed here, but I Avant to give everyone an opportunity to have their questions answered. In September 1946 were these sets declared "hot" by the producers, or were they declared "hot" by the carpenters themselves, because the lATSE was doing set erection in accordance with an arbitration decision ? Mr. Ratiivon. I think I just answered that question. Mr. McCann. I think you did. Now, in order that the gentlemen who have come into the committee hearing room may understand this problem, and for the purpose of clarification, Mr. Rathvon, I think that you should have this state- ment : The evidence before the committee in Hollywood showed that the producers were placed on the horns of a dilemma in that a clarification came out of the three-man committee which apparently turned work to the carpenters which the directive of December had given to the lATSE. Do )^ou agree with that?