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1110 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES Mr. Rathvon. That we were put on the liorns of a dilemma by the issuance of the clarification? Mr. McCann. By the clarification. Mr. Rathvon. That is correct. Mr. McCann. Now, the evidence definitely shows in our record as of this date that Walsh advised you if you dared to carry out the terms of the clarification and return carpenters to the work previously done, as testified by production men here, by carpenters for 15 to 20 years before the directive, that he would close down the theaters, close down the distribution, and close down the production. Are we agreed on that? Mr. Rathvon. Are you asking me if that threat is why we took the action we did ? Mr. McCann. No; I am asking you if there was such a threat ? Mr. Rathvox. I am told Mr. Walsh issued a statement, letter, or something to the effect that if we followed the clarification that we would have to face some sort of strike or action on the part of the lA. Mr. Keaens. To interrupt there, that was because the producers, the carpenters, and the lATSE originally agreed to the directive and then went back to work; isn't that so ? Mr. Rathvon. No. I would say this: We received as a result of this three-man board a decision under which we were supposed to live. Later, after we had tried to live up to that thing, in spite of the fact that the carpenters would not agree to it, a clarification came along which said,in effect, "We reverse some of this now," presumably issu- ing from the same committee. We were told a moment ago by the representative of the actors that the very men who issued the clarification said they did so through pressure and skullduggery in the high councils of the A. F. of L., and not because they themselves wanted to reverse their action. But in any event, the first decision of theirs which favored the lA and which we pledged ourselves to live up to, was affected by this issuance of the clarification which threw the work back to the carpenters. At that point Mr. Walsh said, you live up to the first decision you agreed to. This clarification is of no effect. It has been put in operation here without proper consideration, or whatever. In any event, we were again on the horns of the dilemma. We could either elect to follow the clarification or go ahead on the course we had agreed to. Now, we were advised by counsel very clearly at that time when they looked into it that we would be better off to follow the original decision than to follow the clarification, and that is what we elected to do. Mr. Kearns. And that is followed by an interpretation of the clari- fication, as you recall, which further muddled the thing; is that correct ? Mr. Rathvon. That is correct. Mr. GwiNN. Mr. Chairman, I want to ask him a question as to time. You made your arrangement to live up to the arbitrator's decision or directive; is that correct ? Mr. Rathvon. Yes, sir. Mr. GwiNN. How long after that was the clarification issued ?