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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1113 Mr. Rathvon. I made no such statement to Mr. Brewer. Mr. McCann. Did your labor representative say that to Mr. Brewer ? Mr. Rathvon. I would rather they would testify. I don't know what they said to Mr. Brewer. Mr. IVIcCann. Was it reported to you that they did say that to Mr. Brewer ? Mr. Rathvon. Not to my recollection. Mr. McCanx. Gentlemen, that is in the record, in the minutes which we have already introduced in evidence, that the producers put it up to Mr. Brewer, "We must know if you will furnish replacements before we decide on our course of action." Mr. Rathvon. That would seem to be a rather sensible plan, but I do not recollect that I knew about it. Mr. McCann. That appears in the minutes, so I assume you will agree that it did take place. Now, the issue here, and the thing, Mr. Rathvon, that we are trying to give you as a president, and any other president here, an oppor- tunity to meet is this: There is no question but that you had a right to turn down the painters and carpenters, or had a right to turn down the lA, but when you sat in the conference with the Walsh forces or the lA and definitely planned that on a certain day, flie 23d day of September, you would create incidents which would result in all of the carpenters walking out, that is the issue that Mr. Kearns and I are particularly interested in, as to how you can meet that situation. Mr. Owens. Before he answers, I would like to know if this arose out of that so-called clarification where one plain word, was it "erec- tion" you say changed to "assembly" ? Mr.' McCann. Yes. Mr. Owens. Why? Mr. McCann. That, sir, was done by the three-man vice-presi- dential committee that went out there and made the original decision, then made a clarification 8 months later. Mr. Owens. Don't you think that any men standing on their feet would have a right to oppose and suspect there was something wrong with a thing of that kind after three men had made their decision? Mr. McCann. We don't question that, sir. ^Ir. Owens. Would you call it a conspiracy of any kind, or creating incidents when they oppose-a thing of that kind? It seems to me that was a proper thing to do. Mr. McCann. That is an excellent thought and I am sure it com- forts the presidents. But the thought is that they should create with the cooperation of one group, incidents which shut all of these other men out of their employ. ]Mr. GwiNN. But, Mr. McCann, I understand from your own presen- ation that these men on advice of counsel thought they had a contract 8 months before, a binding contract that they were bound to live up to and that they proposed to stand on it and do whatever they neecled to on the advice of counsel to maintain their rights and their position. Mr. McCann. There is no question but what they had the right to follow the advice of counsel. Mr. GwiNN. Weren't they under obligation to live up to a binding contract wliich they had made? Mr. McCann. You mean the carpenters ?