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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1141 carpenters, and we had asked them to perform tlie work on the so- called hot sets. In other words, we were asking them to comply with the directive as it was originally laid down. They refused and as they refused we told them we had no other work for them and they were to leave the premises. We did that, as I say, because we had to plan our future moves. It would have cost us millions of dollars to allow those sets to become exhausted and have no further work to be done, having all those commitments on our hands. In the second place we did not want a strike in our studios if there was to be one. We wanted the strike outside the studios where there would be no danger of violence, bloodshed, and sabotage of our equipment. So we studiously, deliberately if you please, called in carpenters one by one and painters one by one and said, "Are you going to do the work?" "We want a show-down." If they said, "No," they were dismissed because we wanted to clean the decks and we would then know we could go outside and get other men to do that work if it was possible for us to do it, and operate our studios or close down if necessary. ♦ Mr. Kearns. You felt, thought, you were operating within the pro- visions of the directive all the time ? Mr. Kahane. We were definitely operating within the provisions of the directive. Mr. McCann. Now, Mr. Kahane, the reason I said I did not think you were entirely frank with us when you were testifying in Los Angeles was that now, for the first time, you have told us that you planned definitely to get rid of the men. Mr. Kearns. Well, Mr. McCann Mr. McCann. I am trying to get at the point. Will you tell us how you planned, with whom you planned, and give us the story of what you did do in order to get rid of the men on the 23d? That is what I would like to have. Mr. Kearns. Mr. ]McCann, he was the first witness at that time. You did not have the minutes that referred to that. Mr. McCann. I had no background at all. Mr. Kahane. I think each of the labor-relations men at the studios who handled the detail of that operation testified. For instance, I know that Mr. W. K. Hopkins, who represented our studio, testified. I don't know the exact detail of how it was handled at each studio but I do know tliat at the labor committee I presided over it was the policy adopted, the decision made to operate those studios and that if we were to operate that meant we were to ask for carpenters and painters who were then our employees, to do the work, and if they refused to do the work we were to dismiss them for failure to do assigned work and go ahead and get others if they could. There was no concerted plan. No one had to handle it the same way. The idea was to put yourself in a position as quickly as pos- sible to operate your studio. Mr. INIcCann. Was it agreed it should all be on the 23d of Sep- .t ember ? Mr. Kahane. I do not think so. I think we got rid of our people much before that time, I think somewhere between the 17th and the 23d. Some of the studios got rid of them around the 18th or 19th.