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1200 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES Mr. Perkins. There was a discussion. I was not present at the telephone conversation, you understand. Mr. McCann. You were present, though, at the full meeting? Mr. Perkins. Yes, sir. Mr. McCann. You knew that the full meeting must have decided something, because the committee of the full meeting went out to talk to Hollywood, did they ^ Mr. Perkins. They might have talked to get information, sir. Mr. McCann. Hadn't they already received information as to the ultimatum ? Mr. Perkins. Yes, sir. Mr. McCann. Had they not received information as to Mr. Walsh's threat to close the theaters, the studios, and distribution ? Mr. Perkins. That I do not recollect, sir. Mr. McCann. Did you not know at that meeting you were on the horns of a dilemma between the two unions? Mr. Perkins. Yes; we knew that. Mr. McCann. Well, what did you know about the attitude of Mr. Walsh? Mr. Perkins. We knew that Mr. Walsh had made it clear that he expected us to live up to the directive of December 26. Mr. McCann. And that if you did not, what would happen? Mr. Perkins. I don't know what our express information was about it, sir. Others may have had more express information that I did. Mr. McCann. You mean to say you were not advised as a group of presidents that Mr. Walsh had emphatically stated in the latter part of August 1946 that if "you deviate from the decision of the three-man committee of December 26, 1945, that I will close the theaters, the distribution and the production of pictures in Holly- wood?" Mr. Perkins. Mr. McCann, I know ]\Ir. Walsh had advised us he expected us to live up to the directive. As to further details as to the advice, I could not tell you. I think there was a probable inference drawn by most of those in the room that the results you have just drawn were fine, but I cannot say that was expressly coupled with the information given us. Mr. McCann. You mean to say there was no discussion by the pres- idents in that meeting as to what would happen if they yielded to the carpenters ? Mr. Perkins. There certainly was discussion. Mr. McCann. What did they decide would happen to them if they yielded to the carpenters^ Mr. Perkins. They decided they would be in a lot of trouble and whether they could keep the studios open or not they did not know. Mr. McCann. Didn't they decide actually they could not keep the studios open if they yielded to the carpenters? Mr. Perkins. I think that many in the room felt so. You should understand, Mr. McCann, that the gentlemen meeting there, many of them were primai'ily in New York. Take myself, for instance. Our labor policy' is set on the west coast. I personally am certainly not familiar with all the matters that go on involved in this very impor- tant question of operating the studio.