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1208 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES edge of the type of men they are. I really think they are pretty nice fellows out there trying to do a good job for management and labor. Mr. Owens. He struck me as a man who knew pretty much what he was talking about. Sometimes a man who is looking at things from afar may observe it more closely than those who are always right at hand, t would have to judge that statement by his other remarks and I thought his other remarks were quite to the point. If I were to judge that remark by his others I would give it equal credence. Mr. McCann. Mr. Owens, perhaps you do not know but none of the industry people saw Mr. Doherty in Hollywood. Testimony has been received that none of them approached him or talked with him. I would like to ask Mr. Sax: Did you ever meet Mr. Doherty in Hollywood ? Mr. Sax. The first time I met him or saw him was in this room. Mr. McCann. And if he formed any judgment with respect to you he formed it here in the room; is that right ? Mr. Sax. I would say so; yes. Mr. Owens. I never met Abraham Lincoln but I have read a great deal about him and had to form my judgment on the things that were written about him. Mr. Sax, Well, they are really doing a good job, Mr, Owens, they are trying to do a fine job; they are stabilizing it and are trying to develop the finest I'elations between management and labor. Mr. Owens. When you mentioned Mr. Doherty, what I intended to ask by my question was whether or not you had by your own actions brought about any of this jurisdictional strife? Mr. Sax. No ; I have not. Mr. Owens. Have you encouraged one or the other of these unions? Mr. Sax. No, sir, Mr. Owens. Just how did this jurisdictional difficulty arise? Mr. Sax. Just which one do you refer to, Mr. Owens ? Mr. Owens. The one that brought about the need for a board of arbitration to be appointed. Mr. Sax. That started with the set decorators. It became quite involved there, Mr. Owens. Quite involved is a conclusion, Mr. Sax. That was the beginning of the strife in 1945. Mr. Owens. Well, just what happened? Mr. Sax. Well, the set decorators had a case before the NRLB. There was an intervention, I believe, placed by the lATSE. There was no action we could take in that respect so that brought about the strike. Mr. Owens. That was under the old act and under that act there was nothing vou could do ? Mr. Sax. that is right. Mr. Owens. Then what happened? Mr. Sax. We did not know exactly what to do. The lATSE had, as I say, placed this intervener on record or had intervened in this particular case. We did not know whom we were actually doing business with, whether it was the lATSE or whether it was with the 1421 set designers local. Mr. Oavens. Did the NLRB render a decision in the matter? Mr. Sax. I do not think there was any decision rendered, I believe a strike occurred.