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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1217 Mr. Owens. You say they lind some fri'il^es of their own, but yon do not tell me what they are. Mr. ZoRN. I will tell yon what they are abont. This developed as the strike went on. That is the only way I can tell it to yon. The record shows tliat immediately after the strike was called Mr. Walsh of the lATSE talked with the various international presi- dents. He told them the strike was in violation of the basic agree- ments. You will remember that the carpenters went out and sup- ported this strike. Mr. OwExs. "Which, of course, they could not do under the present act. either? ]Mr. ZoRX. They could not legally do it, and, as a matter of fact, they were violating their agreements when they did it back in 1945. The record shows it became apparent very quickly that Mr. Hutche- son of the cari)enters was sup[)orting this strike and he wanted cer- tain jurisdictions straightened out; that there were certain meetings in New York toward the end of March 1945, between Mr. Walsh and Mr. Hutcheson in which efforts were made to settle jurisdiction as between the carpenters and the lATSE. Mr. McCaxx. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt a minute? I hate to do this, but we have hundreds of pages of testimony covering this material in the record. What he is about to start on has been testified before us by two or three witnesses. Mr. OwExs. Mr. Chairman, I will have to object to Mr. McCann's objecting. I want this material. I do not care what is in the record. Mr. McCaxx. What I want to say to you, sir, is that we have men who were there who testified, rather than INIr. Zorn, who was not there. He is giving 3^ou hearsay testimony with respect to matters Avhen he was not there. He is giving you a lawyer's statement. Mr. Oavexs. That is a good point. Mr. ]McCaxx. I have in the room here men who were there. Mr. Oavexs. That is a good point. Mr. McCaxx. I have presidents of unions who want to testify and men who have not been heard. These men have been heard. Mr. OwExs. You were not there? Mr. ZoRx. I was simply refen-ing to the record. Mr. Oa\t:xs. All the time when I am asking for facts I am asking for something that you know. Mr. ZoRX. I was not at that meeting, sir. ]Mr. Owens. That is one point I want to cover, only what you know. Mr. Landis. If the gentleman will yield, I think it very important that he answer the $64 question. If I understand him right, the wav he puts it as to whv thev did not take advantage of the Taft- Hartley Act. ]Mr. bwExs. Oh, I was coming to that. That was to be the dessert. I was trying to lead up to that point to find out how you participated between 1945 and 1946, in order to find out what position you would be in to answer that question. Mr. ZoRN. I can answer that. Mr. Oa\t:ns. What did you do that you had personal knowledge of? Mr. ZoRx. I was one of labor counsel in tliis situation. My head- quartei-s are in New York. I was in relation with the president on labor matters. In other words, on labor questions I am supposed to be the specialist.