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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1241 Mr. OvTE^s. I was trying to find out why the IA went in and tried to seek the intervention of the National Labor Eehations Board, then hiter when the War Labor Board came in they did not want to have it settled. Do yon know why that was? ]Mr. SoRKELL. Let me explain. The producers refused to deal with us for these people unless we could be certified. The lA by filino: an intervenor stopped the cer- tification, period. Now, when the Labor Board had the hearings, the lA refused to participate, period. They stopped us there. Their attorney sat in as an observer. The attorneys for the pro- ducers and the attorneys for the lATSE sat together and connived against us. Mr. OwExs. That is a conclusion, too, isn't it ? Mr. SoRRELL. Xo; it is not a conclusion; they sat together; they worked together against us. There is no doubt about that. There are records on that. In spite of that, Thomas Tongue returned a verdict which said, in essence—and I cannot give you the exact words, but they can be had, if the committee is interested Mr. McCaxx. I think it has been received in evidence previously. Mr. SoRRELL. He rendered a decision by which the producers were to deal with and recognize local 1421 as the bargaining agency, and if they were not satisfied or if anyone was not satisfied, it gave them three places to go to for an appeal; but that they must abide by the decision until it was reversed on appeal. One of the places to go to was the National Labor Relations Board. The other was to the American Federation of Labor. It seems there was some other way they could appeal, but I am not sure. However, the lATSE filed with the American Federation of Labor and the producers filed with the National Labor Relations Board be- cause if the producers filed, then they had to hear the case. It made a difference who filed. One A. F. of L. union could not file against the other, but if the producers filed, they had to hear the case. But the producers refused to negotiate or to have any recognition in the interim. While this was being negotiated they refused to rec- ognize 1421. Mr. 0\\t:xs. In other words, they refused to recognize that the War Labor Board had any jurisdiction in matters that might properly belong to the NLRB?" Mr. SoRRELL. Well, that is what they said. ]Mr. O^^^EX'S. Tliey might have had a point. Mr. SoRRELL. Well, it was a point, evidently, it stood up pretty well. At the National Labor Relations Board hearing, I made a point. I was on the stand. I think it was the last day we were at the hearing. I asked: "Now, we have gone through a long hearing before the War Labor Board and nobody abides by the decision bat the painters. Now we are going through a long hearing in the National Labor Relations Board. Is anybody going to abide by the decision but tlie painters?" Homer ^litchell and Mike Levy both refused to answer. Mr. OwExs. Who were they ? Mr. SoRRELL. Homer Mitchell was the producers' representative, and Mike Levy was the representative for the lATSE. They refused to