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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1267 Mr. McCann. Do you not kno^A^ from your own knowledge that the producers have from time to time called him and asked him, "What does the record show on such and such a date, and what was done by the producers on this issue''? Mr. BoREN. Yes; I know that they have called him and asked him, Mr. McCann. It was common knowledge among those who were there that Mr. Clark kept minutes of the meetings of the producers meetings, was it not? ]Mr. BoREX. I think most of the peo])le knew that. Perhaps some of the people did not know that those notes were kept. Mr. ^[cCaxn. But you know most of them knew they were kept? Mr. BoREN. Many of them knew they were kept. Mr. McCann. xVnd utilized these notes from time to time for the purposes of their organization? "Sir. Kearns, Mr, Counsel, we have on the record from the Los Angeles meeting that they admitted they knew the notes were kept. Mr. McCanx. Mr. Chairman, some said they never kneAv the notes were kept at all, and yet these notes go into all the negotiations, they go into meetings as to what will be paid, wages and hours and work- ing conditions, Mv. BoREx. I am on the stand, Mr. McCann. I know those notes were kept and I answered to that effect. Mr. McCaxx. Mr. Chairman, that finishes my direct questions, if you will excuse me. Other questions will be submitted, I know. ]Mr. Kearns. Mr. Boren, before I call on Mr. Owens, I would like to have you in your own words describe the preparation that was made to prepare the checks for those who were leaving the jobs on Monday, September 23, is not that correct? Mr. BoREX. Yes, that is correct. From September 12 to September 23 sets had been declared hot by carpenters. During that period we built as many sets as w^e could in our mill, complete, to be erected on the stages. We had some painting to do during that time. Paramount Pic- tures assigned some painters to the hot sets before September 23. These men refused to do the work. Mr. Kearxs. Why did they refuse to do the work ? Mr. BoREx. Because they were supporting the carpenters. They would not go on a set and paint which had been erected by set erectors of the lATSE. We laid off these painters for refusal to do work assigned. Subse- quently they returned to work, because they did work on the hot sets, that is, the painters did. But at our studios and our mills—Paramount I am speaking of only—began to get cramped up and other studios did, it was decided we would have a test to see whether or not the carpenters and painters would live up to the directive that was issued by the three-man committee. ]Vfr. Kearxs. That test was planned by the producers—by Para- mount; is not that correct? Mr. Bouex. Yes, sir. It was my belief that these men would refuse. I did not know whether they would or not, but I wanted to find out if they would or not. I thought the better part of the gamble was that they would refuse.