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1316 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES Mr. Owens. You mean the men wlio kept their individual promise to the President of the United States not to strike during wartime'^ Mr. Brown. I don't know Avhat promise they made. Mr. McCann. Mr. Chairman Mr. Owens. Please, Mr. McCann. Mr. Brown. I don't know that those individuals made a promise. I made a promise. Mr. Owens. When the union makes a promise does it not include the whole body of the membership? Mr. Brown. Mr. Owens, when we made that promise we thought everybody else would play on the square and would act like real Americans, but when a movement was started to try to exterminate our organization, then we have got a right to defend ourselves. Mr. Owens. All right. That is a good point. Who tried to ex- terminate your organization? Mr. Brown. It is our belief Mr. Owens. Don't give me any belief; tell me facts. Mr. Brown. Let me answer the question in my own way, will you, please? Mr. Owens. But I am stopping you when you tell me your beliefs. I don't want your beliefs. I want facts. Mr. Brown. Well, men are actuated by beliefs and ideas. They are actuated by what happens and what they believe is going to affect them in one way or another. Mr. Owens. Mr. Brown, that may be true, but in this hearing we are only interested in the facts which brouglrt about your belief, so we want the facts in order to determine whether there is any ground for your beliefs. Mr. Brown. Mr. Owens, before we go any further, am I to under- stand that as a witness I cannot venture opinions based upon my belief? Mr. Owens. If you are testifying as an expert on some point that might be true, but now we are looking for facts. Mr. Brown. And if a question is asked me and all I have is my opinion, am I to say nothing or just give you my opinion ? Mr. Owens. Just bring the people who know the facts and let us question you on that point. You made a statement about people who were trying to do a certain thing to your union. Are you basing that on hearsay from someone else or what you know yourself ? Mr. Brown. I am basing it upon our belief. Those beliefs are in- fluenced by what was happening to our members out there. Mr. Owens. Give me the facts of what someone did to you, that you know about. Mr. Brown. Now you are going into the details. Wlien I finished my prepared statement I told the chairman at his request I brought an associate with me who was at the scene of the controversy, familiar witli the details. I said I was testifying only to matters which came to me from long range. Mr. Owens, you are going into details and I think those questions should be presented to my associate, who, I believe, will be called here. Mr. Owens. In other words, you do not know personally? Mr. Brown. Not the details. Mr. Owens. You are basing it entirely upon what you are told by your assistants ?