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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1339 I am trying to tie this down, Mr. Chairman. I think the charge of conspiracy is serious. It is my thought that that was the one thinir tliat mifjht solve this so-called problem. So far I have not seen any evidence of a conspiracy at all. Mr. Keai:xs. This will be off the record. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. Brown. On page 417 of the proceedings, this is the part I have in mind: Mr. McCann. In other words, you had instructions from Mr. Freston to call the carpenters to work on "hot" sets, and the painters to work on "hot" sets and to pay them oi¥ if they did not work on them? Mr. Sax. That is right. Again I say it is my information that the lA, and in one instance the teamsters refused to perform work because the machinists had been working on them and we are not in the A. F. of L. Mr. Kearns. Is that what the wording is ? Mr. Brown. I am now drawing a parallel. Mr. Kearns. You are not reading now? Mr. Brown. Oh, no. Mr. IvEARNS. You want to say "end of quote," so the reporter will get it. ]\Ir. Brown. I am sorry. My position is thai when management discharges members of one union because they refuse to work on the "hot" sets, so to speak, and then another union is guilty of the same offense or an offense similar to it and refuses to work because someone is performing an operation and they are not in the A. F. of L., that that is showing discrimination or conspiracy there. Mr. Owens. Mr. Brown, do you have any personal knowledge of anything like that that happened ? ^Ir. Brown. It is my information Mr. Kearns. Now you are going back to information. He is talk- ing about personal knowledge. You said you got it from the record in Los Angeles, did you not. Mr. Brown ? Mr. Brown. Let me see just what I did say here. During his opening statement, the Honorable Carroll D. Kearns, chairman of the Hollywood Cnmmitteee stated: "Careful analysis of the testimony i'eretofore received indicates that the jurisdictional strife in September 1946. which has continued imtil the present time in the Hollywood studios, is probably the result of collusion between the pro- ducers and the lATSE." I share the chairman's view. It is difficult to understand how anyone can read the proceedings of a previous hearing held in* Los Angeles September 2, 194T, without sharing the chairman's view. ^Lv. Owens. You referred to September 2. Mr. Broavn. Yes. Mr. Owens, ^'ou notice tlie chairman said "probably." Mr. Brown. He said what? Mr. Owens. He used the word "probably" in there. He is referring to what might be found. Not that I share his view, but nevertheless he used the word "probably" but you several times directly charged conspiracy. Mr. Brown. I said it is difficult to understand.