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1358 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES and the foreman of the shop. I pointed out to yon that the establish- ment there was a machine shop pure and simple and that anyone required to do the work in that shop would necessarily have to be a machinist. Mr. Kearns. If they were machinists, they did not necessarily be- long to your union, or had they at one time belonged to your union? Mr. Wayne. The majority of them then were members of our union, but they also had to carry an lATSE card. Mr. Kearns. That is the point I want to clarify. In other words, they retained their card in your union, but after the directive was handed down, they joined the lATSE ? Mr. Wayne. No. Many of the men in that shop have worked there continuously from 1937, at which time the lATSE issued them cards, either gratis, or for a small fee. Mr. Kearns. But did they have your cards when the other cards were issued ? Mr. Wayne. Yes. Approximately 22 people worked in that shop of which about 14 do and have carried 1185 cards, our cards. Mr. Kearns. Was this card of the lATSE more or less issued as a token card to them ? Mr. Wayne. No. It was supposed to be a bona fide card to allow them to work on so-called prop work. One of the determining fac- tors as to whether or not a man should belong to the lAM or the lATSE, was whether or not the job he worked on was to be photo- graphed or not. I think you will recall from the testimony in Los Angeles, it got down to the point where a drawing was brought into the machine shop to make a pulley or a shiv. A machinist could do it, but if they happened to roll it on to a set and take a picture of it, then it became a propmaker's job. Mr. Kearns. That is right, I recall. Mr. Wayne. Our contention has been that anything made in a machine shop shoidd be made by a machinist, and inasmuch as we had a contract with the motion-picture producers covering machinists' work for 1185, it was always our work. Mr. Kearns. Did your local object to the lATSE giving these men who worked in M-G-M that card ? Mr. Wayne. We objected. Mr. Kearns. On what grounds? Mr. Wayne. On any grounds, that anything but an 1185 card was required to do machinists' work. Mr. Kearns. It was not necessarily required that they have the lATSE card. You just stated they gave them those cards in con- sideration of the operation there, isn't that right ? Mr. Wayne. It wasn't quite so simple as that, Mr. Kearns. I have a copy of a letter addressed to our then internationiil presi- dent, A. O. Horton, dated May 15, 1937. It was written b}^ our then representative George C. Castleman. In part it says Mr. Kearns. Just take the meat out of it. Mr. Wayne. That is what I am trying to do, sir. Referring to local No. 37, lATSE: This organization has issued union cards to members of our organization so that tliey may be legalized strikebreakers. This, incidentally, for a direct prose- lyting of our membership.