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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1359 It was at that time the order came out that nobody could work in that particular prop shop without having an lATSE card. Mr. Kearxs. At that time wasn't there a question as to whether or not the machinists were making props or the prop makers, who were lATSE men were making the props? That was a fine line of jurisdiction at that time, was it not? Mr. Wayxe. This was earlier when we got our first contract. This was May 15, 1937. At that time we were on strike. We were en the bricks. In order to get the machinists to come back in there local 37 issued lATSE cards. Mr, Kearns. You could not get back in unless you had a second card ? Mr. Wayxe. That was the information that was given us. Mr. Kearxs. Who gave you that information? Mr. Wayne. Well, it was talked daily between us people in our own union. Mr. Kearxs. Yes, but who gave you the ultimatiun on it ? Mr. Wayx'e. It was never given to me direct, Mr, Kearns, but I would say the business representative of local 37 of the lATSE. Mr. Kearxs. Was it handled by the international or is that local autonomy again ? Did the order come down from Mr, Walsh or Mr. Brown, or was whoeA'er was the business agent calling the signals out there? Mr, Wayxe. I can onh' guess, because I don't know. Mv. Kearxs. All right, Mr. Wayxe. But I rather imagine it was Mr. Lew Glicks who then Mas the business representative of local 37. Mr. Kearxs. But your men could not go back in there and work unless they could flash an lATSE card, is that correct? Mr. Wayxe. That is correct. Mr. OwEXs. He says he doesn't know. Mr. Kearxs. Do you know about the card or don't you know about the card? What were you doing there? Mr. Wayxe. I Avas working on the bench. ]\Ir. OwEx\'^. Did you have the two cards? Mr. Wayxe. No, sir; this is only one shop in the motion-picture industry. Mr. Kearxs. What shop were you working in? Mr. Wayxe. I was working at Paramount Pictures. Mr. Kearxs. You did not have to have two cards? Mr. Wayxe. Xo, sir, Mr. Kearxs. But you did have to have at M-G-M? Mr. Wayxe. In that prop shop; yes. Mr. Kearns. In 1937? Mr. Wayxe. Yes; and continuing until the present. Mr. Kearxs. Until now? Mr. Wayxe. Yes. Mr. Kearxs. How much controversy or how much conflict was there in prop-making, so far as prop-making was concerned—that is, as to how much the machinists were involved? How much were you in- volved in the overlap? Wasn't it a minimum, really?