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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1363 Mr. Wayne. So far as I am ct)nceriied, those who broke ranks from the machinists would be strikebreakers, in my opinion. Mr. Owens Then the same would be true in '37, would it not? Mr. Wayne. Yes. Mr. Owens. Still 3'ou accepted them into your ranks without any question and worked right along with them and continued to build with those men who went and worked with the other unions in the sho]), did you not? ]\Ir. Wayne. Yes. That is often the case, ^Ir. Owens. I appreciate that, and 3'ou are very honest and frank about making your statements without any equivocation. I appreciate that. We all know those things, and we just want to get them into the record. AVhen they come in, frankly, I think it is very helpful. AVhat we want to get down to now is just what about the straight dif- ference in feeling between '37 and '45, particularly when in '45 it was a time of war when those men went in, and it was not in '37. yir. Wayne. Well, developments of that kind are sometimes hard to explain, and particularly after they have passed—to give a lucid reason why they were done. We meet situations as they are. Mr. Owens. In other words, it was taken b}' reason of a great num- ber of factors gathered together in a big cloud at one time; isn't that correct ? ]\rr. Wayne. That is correct. I have been in this business since 1928. This is a development that has been brewing ever since that time. Mr. Owens. I think that is about the most correct statement I have heard about the matter. In other words, it just seemed that dur- ing the time of war, when everj^one's nerves were on edge, that seemed to be the breaking point. Mr. Kearns. Will the gentleman yield there? ]Mr. Owens. Yes. Mr. Keaens. You have consistently, Mr. Owens, brought out the point about them quitting during time of war. How about all the other unions throughout America that did not operate during war? What I am trying to get at is: Is this a direct reflection upon the A. F. of L., or do you include all unions throughout America that may have had stoppages during the war ? Mr. Owens. Any of the unions that made an agreement with the President—and A. F. of L. leadership did make an agreement with the President that there would be no strike—I think the amount of strikes they engaged in were infinitesimal during the war. I do not have the figures, but I think the A. F. of L., to my knowledge, kept their agreement pretty well with the President. It would be just situations like these carried out in a number of other places which add up to the few that occurred. My feelings are that in other places they are no different. In my opinion, a promise to the United States is a promise, regardless of Avho makes it. Mr. Kearns. On January 2 Mr. Hutcheson made a promise to the President of the United States there would be no stoppage in building construction. That was January 2, 1946. As you know, Mr. Counsel, we were at Newark, N. J., during the buildin£r stoppage down there, where there was no building done for 7 months after that.