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1366 MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES Mr. Owens. Didn't you ever check it yourself as the head of the union out there to ascertain that fact? Mr. Wayne. I saw the two cards. Mr. Owens. But I mean, did you ever check with management or the one who was in charge, to determine whether or not those men had to have two cards in order to work ? Mr. Wayne. I protested to management, and management said, "Well, what can we do?" Mr. Owens. Who did you protest to? Mr. Wayne. To the foreman in the shop. Mr. Owens. Wlio did you speak to about that matter? Mr. Wayne. Jack Mowrey, who was the foreman in the shop. Mr. Owens. Wlien did you do that? Mr. Wayne. At various times, from the 1st of July 1937 to the present date. Mr. Owens. What did you say to him? Mr. Wayne. Insisted that our card and our card alone be the re- quirement to work in that shop. Mr. Owens. You told him that? Mr. Wayne. Yes. Mr. Owens. What did he say to you ? Mr. Wayne. "What can I do? The lATSE says it has to be this way." Mr. Owens. He said that to you? Mr. Wayne. Yes, over and over again, Mr. Owens. In other words, he said that men with your card alone could not work ? Mr. Wayne. Not if they did prop work, which was still machinist work. Mr. Owens. You are talking about prop work now ? Mr. Wayne. In that shop it was all machinist work. Mr. Owens. But you explained before it was a regular rule that when it was moved out on the set as to prop work it was not your work. Mr. Wayne. I did not testify to that. I said it was all our work. Mr. Owens. You said it was an understood rule that the work done out on the set was done by the other men, the IA men ? Mr. Wayne. I said the lATSE made that distinction. We never did. We never agreed to it. Mr. Owens. Did management recognize it? Mr. Wayne. They were forced to recognize it. Mr. Owens. What did the arbitration committee hold ? Mr. Wayne. The arbitration committee walked right around that issue. If there was any issue that was the only one, and the arbitration committee went into fields far away from that. They did not resolve that matter at all. They gave us a new set of rules to work by, by which they lost work. Mr. Owens. You mean that same rule was still in effect? Mr. Wayne. To the best of my knowledge; yes. Mr. Owens. That is all. Mr. Kearns. Thank you, Mr. Wayne. Mr. McCann. We have a number of questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kearns. Yes; I want to clear something up here. Mr. Walsh, will you come to the stand a moment, please? The rea- son I did not call Mr. Walsh on this question was because I knew he was not president of the lATSE at that time.