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MOTION-PICTURE JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTES 1417 Mr, HuTCHESON. The A. F. of L. had nothing to do with it. That is what I am trying to tell you. Local 1042 was chartered by the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America, and when that local of the United Brotherhood entered into an agreement, the A. F. of L. had nothing to say about that agreement. The Brotherhood of Carpenters had the say, and we said "No," Mr. Owens. I know that, but Mr. HuTCHESON, Well, then, if you know it, why review it or discuss it ? Mr, Owens. You would not obey the order of the A, F, of L., but you did take control over the autonomy of your own local, Mr, Hutcheson, My dear Congressman, let me tell you this: We, I, do not dictate to our members. Our constitution is made by a refer- endum vote. Every member of the brotherhood has a right to vote for or against proposed amendments, and through that procedure, sir, they tell the general president what to do. Now, then, it is his duty to see that the rules, regulations, and law, if you please, of the brotherhood as adoi)ted and made by a referendum vote of the members, are observed by those members who made them. Is that clear? "Sir. Owens. I always understood that things should be equal in governing bodies and I thought that inasmuch as you were one of the internationals of the A. F, of L., and they issued an order and you would not obey it, that it would be expected you would treat your locals with the same autonomous right that you have exercised in the A, F, ofL, Mr, Hutcheson. Mr. Congressman, let me clarify your mind just a little further, if I can. The United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America is a democratic organization. I do not mean politically; I am not speak- ing about that—don't misunderstand me, please. Mr, Owens. We understand each other, I am sure, INIr. Hutcheson, But when it comes to adopting laws to govern members, they all have an opportunity to vote on it through the refer- endum. They all have an opportunity to vote for or against any candidate who is seeking election as an officer of the international. We call that a democratic American procedure. Now, then, they have approved of the jurisdiction we have by a vote of our membei'S, I don't want to bring this in, but inasmuch as you have already, I really have to make this statement in reference to what you just referred to as the 1914 action of the American Fed- eration of Labor. Now, when we helped to bring into existence the American Fed- eration of Labor, we were an organization that was recognized as taking jurisdiction over all of the various branches of woodworking— and still are—including millwrighting. We have no quarrel with the machinists over machinists, but we do claim and did have, when we became an organization aud when we became a part of the American Federation of Labor, the jurisdiction over millwrights, and we still have it today, ' I venture to say this, my friend Harvey Brown in discussing that controversy, won't make any mention to millwrights, but he will talk