Minutes of evidence taken before the Departmental Committee on Cinematograph Films (1936)

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 67 19 May, 1936.] Mr. Paul Rotha. [Contin in d. newsreels at the time. It may have been shown on the newsreel screen within a matter of 48 if not 24 hours after the event took place. But it was a matter of four months before the launching of the " Orion " was incorporated into the documentary film " Shipyard ". Do 1 make that point clear? 515. (Chairman) : Yes, thank you. 516. (Sir Arnold Wilson) : 1 will not question you on Clause (b), but 1 feel there is real danger in admitting films depicting wholly or mainly natural scenery into the documentary class for quota. I can see that there would be a possibility of abuse? — Even with the further matter of the proof of documentary quality, which we suggest in Part C, paragraph 2 (g) (i), which is that, " Every maker of documentary films who wished a film to become eligible for quota should be required to furnish the Board of Trade with a detailed description of how the subject of the film is treated"? I think it is possible to have a film of natural scenery where it would not be difficult to give a really creative visual and oral treatment of it, such as " Song of Ceylon ". 517. You bring in under Clause (e) of paragraph 7 the question of " films depicting wholly or mainly industrial or manufacturing processes ". Now, this is an exceedingly important point? — Yes, Sir. 518. There are certain firms, the Great Western Railway Company for example, the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, the British Broadcasting Corporation, the Post Office, all of which are for practical purposes commercial money making concerns whose object is to spiritualise and to popularise and to give dignity to the operations of the great numbers of men which they control. It is technically correct to say that they are desiring to advertise. It is really true that they are desiring to popularise and to put on the highest level the industry which they represent. Is it not possible that a great number of persons will be content to accept that and to ignore the advertising value altogether? — Yes, I think that is quite possible. 519. Do you think any considerable number will object to being propaganded, so to speak? — You are referring to the people in the audience? 520. Yes? — I think that if the film is sufficiently well made they will not object, witness " Night Mail ", " Workers and Jobs ", " Face of Britain ", and others. 521. Coal miners will not say to a film regarding the oil industry, " Here is another insidious attack to deprive us of our livelihood by popularising what is essentially a danger to our trade"? — I should hardly think that attitude would be taken. I think that the attitude which would be taken is one of interest 522. And the motor industry will not say, " Here are the railways using the films to attract people on to the railways and thus to undercut the great motor industry ' ' ? 523. (Mr. Holmes): They can do the same. 524. (Sir Arnold Wilson) : They can do the same, yes? — I think one must draw a very wide distinction between the question of public relations and the question of direct advertisement. 525. On your point, because public relations is one point and direct advertisement by documentary films is another; the " Shipyard " film is a case in point. It might well be worth the while of the shipyards in this country to spend large sums on advertising. 526. (Mr. Holmes): Such as is done by Boots the chemists? — That falls into the class of direct advertising. 527. (Sir Arnold Wilson) : It is very difficidt to say where direct advertising begins and ends, but I do not want to exclude them merely on the ground that there is an element of direct advertising. 1 will turn now to paragraph 7, Clause (/). Judging by the enormous sales achieved by cheap literature of all types dealing with popular science, popular botany, popular history, which anyone in the publishing trade knows to be a feature for the last 36452 six or eight years, would not one expect to find a road to the market for short films on the same lines? — 1 agree, one would expect to do so. 528. And that being the case is it correct to saj that this category may be fairly excluded? — 1 think it would be rather unfair to exclude it as is at present the case. I think again there production will be on the upgrade. 529. I have made a study at one time of errandboy literature, and I found that science, dramatically treated, is almost as popular as the " DeadEye Dick " fiction, and it has always surprised me that in the cinema there is such a concentration on " Dead-Eye Dick " films to the exclusion of what I know to be the general interest of errand boys and factory youths? — As an example there is the series " The Secrets of Nature," natural history films. 530. Would you say that it has been established beyond any shadow of doubt that children and animals are the most universally popular and entertaining subjects on any screen? — I should not care to say that they are the most universal. I would say they are one of the most universal. 531. Turning to Part C, paragraph 1, if that full quota could be granted to all documentary films, would you be prepared, supposing that you get full quota, to let documentary films take their chance in the ordinary programme at the discretion of the renter or the exhibitor or would you wish to have a special set of rules governing the exhibition and exploitation of documentary films? — No, we do not suggest that there should be a special set of rules, but I do think what will affect the case is our second point in paragraph 2 (o) which is that the footage of imported short films should be offset by British short films and not by long films as at present. 532. In fact you would advocate a more rigorous exclusion from this country of foreign shorts? — I would. 533. In paragraph 2 (g) you are content to contemplate an advisory committee or sub-committee which would be the sole and final arbiter of taste. quality, and standard, and of creative treatment? — Provided that on the advisory committee documentary interests were represented. 534. How far would you regard it as desirable to have the public represented? — I think it would be very advisable. 535. Assuming that an advisory committee was formed and endowed with powers to guide the activities of the documentary producer, would you favour a permanent committee sitting for the duration of the Act or a transient panel? — I would suggest a transient panel would be more satisfactory. 536. The Royal Fine Arts Commission is a notable example of an advisory board on art. Do you not think that whatever body is established should be quite independent of the trade and have a majority of the public on it? — I think there should be a majority of the public, Sir, but if in the general Advisory Committee dealing with fiction films the film trade should be represented, as at present, by eight members, I think that on the committee appointed to look after the documentary film interests at least a producer or router of documentary films should be represented. 537. (Sir Arnold Wilson): My Lord Chairman, that concludes my questions. 1 thank the Committee for their courtesy. 538. (Mr. Cameron): T will not keep you very long because the ground has been very well covi red. 1 am not quite sure after this discussion whether in your mind that committee would have to 3ee all films or merely adjudicate any difficult cases? — Merely adjudicate. I think the question of seeing films would be obviated by — if I may refer you to Part ('. paragraph 2. (g), (it. (ii) and (iii), the evidence furnished by the producers of the documentary films on which I suggest the Board of Trado itself could act. I 2