Minutes of evidence taken before the Departmental Committee on Cinematograph Films (1936)

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 85 26 May, 1936.] Mr. T. H. Fligelstone and Mr. W. R. Fuller. [Continued. months ago when we saw the Board of Trade and we brought one or two people. It is amazing to see their figures, and taking all the grades of programme you see their takings ranging from £400 to £600 a week. Every time a British film comes in there is a drop of £150 a .week. 697. {Mr. Cameron) : Are these working class areas, or middle-class areas? — More working class areas. 698. {Mr. Holmes) : I want you to assume the renters' quota is done away with, and that block booking is done away with, and so far as the exhibitors are concerned they have free trade in films. They can choose whatever they like, maintaining a quota of x per cent, of British films. I want to ask you first whether you think that will not encourage the making of good British films, and the abolition of the bad quickies? — {Mr. Fligelstone) : Might I ask if you are suggesting in simple language that a quota should be retained upon the exhibitor and no quota upon the renter? 699. Yes? — I think that is a very wonderful suggestion— for the American renter. What would happen if that were done would be that the American renter would be entirely satisfied with the quota and would say to himself " Well that is so much loss per annum or so much expenditure per annum washed out." We are fairly satisfied with the product from the British companies. It is the American companies with whom we are concerned. Furthermore, I understand in protective legislation the first thing the Government does is to protect the consumer and not place him at the mercy of the manufacturer, which is what I suggest would happen. We have been exploited as it is, but that would be nothing compared with the manner in which we should be exploited if there were a quota only on the exhibitor. 700. We have been told that the American renter, in order to fulfil his quota, gets a very cheap British film which lowers the prestige of the British film maker. Is that correct? — Well, I think in the main without a lot of explanation I should say " yes ". 701. If, therefore, the American renter is not required to trouble at all about British films, those cheap, poor British films will not be made. It will, therefore, encourage the British maker who wants to make a good film to make a good film, because he will be able to put those on the market, the exhibitor will be able to take them as part of his quota, and the competition of the cheap American " quickie " — British " quickie " made by the Americans to fulfil their quota — will disappear? — {Mr. Fuller) : Why will he be encouraged to make good ones? One can understand his being encouraged to make films as fast as he can, but why should he be encouraged to make good ones? 702. The exhibitor will have to take so many British films. If British producers know that this quota must be taken by exhibitors they will endeavour to make good films because, as you are not going to have block booking any longer (mind I am still talking with the abolition of block booking in mind) there will be a free opportunity on the part of every exhibitor to choose for himself whatever British films he likes. — {Mr. Fligelstone) : What guarantee have we that there will be this urge on the part of the British manufacturer to make good films? There appears to be a misguided opinion about this industry that there is a wish on the part of the producers to make greater and better films. We have not found that. What we have found is the wish to make money in this business, and I put it to you this way as a thinking man. I know that if I were a British manufacturer in those circumstances I would immediately get hold of the British manufacturers and form such a ring that there would be no choice or margin of selection for the British exhibitor. He would have so much, and so much, and he would have to take it whether he liked it or not, and to pay what was demanded whether he liked it or not. 703. Under the renters' quota at the present time your exhibitors have to take so many British films per annum, but in order to get your American films you are compelled to take so much of that quota from the Americans in block booking? — That is not so. We are compelled to take the bad quota because there is no good quota. 704. Are we to understand that no American renter ever says to an exhibitor in this country, " We will only let you have this American film of ours if you take A, B and 0 of our British films " ? — If you ask me personally, I cannot speak for the whole trade because I do not know how they negotiate, but if you ask me personally that does not happen with me. I will make a definite statement so far as 1 am concerned. I cannot speak for the trade because I am not in their offices when these negotiations take place, but I have never had that put to me. 705. You have never had to take any British film with an American film compulsorily ? — In the ordinary course of events the salesman has to sell his English quota and not all American films are good, but they do not come with a pistol to your head and say, " Take so-and-so ". 706. You have to take eight films together, and are they not British films? — Not necessarily. 707. How does the renter fulfil his quota at the present time?— He is in a different position from the exhibitor. The exhibitor has to show. The renter has practically only got to acquire. 708. Does not the renter have to sell so many British films for every foreign film?— If I may suggest it, Mr. Patterson could answer that even better than I can. {Mr. Patterson): The position of the renter is that he has to acquire for the purpose of renting to exhibitors a certain proportion of British films. The Board of Trade examine the renter's returns to see whether he has rented those films to exhibitors. 709. {Mr. Holmes) : We have been informed the reason why so many bad British pictures are on the market is because the American renter, in order to fulfil his quota, buys these cheaply and passes them on together with his good American films to an exhibitor and so the prestige of the British film making industry has suffered, and you say that is not correct?— I have said that is my personal experience. I cannot speak for the whole country. I have not consulted them. {Mr. Fuller) : You can generalise a little more to this extent. In a booking, a man will pay a percentage for his complete programme. Your second feature, which is one of these rubbishy quota " quickies," if a renter has one of those on hand he may put it against his good American film, and as you have to show so much footage that will in due course be shown. In some highly competitive districts the salesman will use every device possible and say " You had better take the 'quickies'," for the purpose of getting the number of bookings to be submitted to the Board of Trade in due course. 710. Are you in favour of block booking?— No, we are not in favour of block booking. 711. {Chairman) : You think your solution in paragraph :;l is workable. You cannot let everybody show the film at the same time, and the preference of one over the other is inevitable. 712. {The Hon. Eleanor Plumer): Does the barring clause come in now? — Yes. 713. {Chairman): Barring clauses involve this discrimination. This looks wonderful if you could do it? — You could do it to-morrow. The Kinematograph Renters' Society will not let you pool your bookings if you are individuals. What is likely to happen to-morrow is that you would get perhaps five to six competitive groups, but they would all bargain, they would do a much more suitable bargain with the renters than bhey can do as individuals. 714. And the give ami take would come within the group. Would not that involve very great