Minutes of evidence taken before the Departmental Committee on Cinematograph Films (1936)

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 137 30 June, 1936.] Mr. J. Grierson. \_Cont in in </. for the Empire Marketing Board period were the films that were called the " Industrial Britain " group. " Industrial Britain " was very much a new kind of film. It praised the up-to-date young craftsmen of the new industries as distinct from the craftsmen of the old. 1465. What was the date of that?— 1932 production and 1933 circulation. That group was probably one of the most successful short groups of its type ever circulated in this country. When I saw certain remarks made by exhibitors' interests before you that these films had not been wanted by the public I looked up the figures and found that 5,000 theatres altogether took these films, an average of nearly a thousand each. 1466. Who said that? — In the evidence given by exhibitors before you there was a strong indication that documentary films had not been successful. " Industrial Britain " was an example of a documentary film succeeding all over the country. It was well received not only in the West End of London, where they had probably never before seen industrial workers on their screens, but also in central England where the men saw their own lives shown. 1467. Can you give us the list of various aspects of industry which you have tackled? — "Industrial Britain " covered many aspects of industry : among others, coal, steel, and the aircraft industry. We have done a great deal for the fishing industry. We did herring in Drifters, the white fish industry in Oranton Trawler and also the salmon and line fishing industries. We have done something for agriculture. In the days of the Board there was a scheme to do something for research in agriculture. One such film dealt with pasture research in North Wales. 1468. Is there any legal reason why the Ministry of Agriculture should have dropped it because the Empire Marketing Board did? — The Ministry of Agriculture has since produced two or three films. One such film was quite good : a film called Spring Comes to England, dealing with rationalised market garden methods. 1469. Did it go abroad? — I do not know that. It has not been within my power to circidate. 1470. So far as you can recollect what was the impression on the public of the Industrial Britain series? Was it regarded as a piece of propaganda for something or other or as a genuine amusement? — I should say genuine entertainment or we should not have got the bookings and money we did. 1471. Did the Board as a whole lose on its film ventures? — Not on the films we booked to the theatres. It should be remembered that the principal film work of the Empire Marketing Board was not in the creation of films booked to the theatres but in the part it played with Mr. Bruce Woolfe in the creation of the non-theatrical field. 1472. You mentioned the non-trade aspect of your activities and of films generally which seems to me to have a future? — It has an extraordinary future. 1473. Which has still to be realised?— Yes. 1474. But it depends largely upon shorts? — Yes. 1475. And if there are any new ventures and ideas, whether in execution or in the nature of the subject they must appear first in shorts ?— I think to a large extent they might also appear in the 3,000 to 5,000 feet field, if the basic cost set is not prohibitive. 1476. But the short is necessarily an experimental field? — It is a useful field for experiment. 1177. Your Industrial Britain series had great success in the theatres. Did they penetrate into the non-theatrical field at all? — We reckon these films have a new and additional life in the nontheatrical field. In the theatres they reach the popular audiences. In the non-theatrical field they reach another audience which is slightly more studious and somewhat more concerned with discussion and with public affairs. 1478. Did you reduce films to 16 mm.?— All of them. 1479. They found a market? — Not a market. The non-theatrical film does not represent a market; it is largely a subsidised or sponsored field. It is worth our while as educationalists to provide films and projection facilities. 1480. What is the object of the work you are doing for the Post Office? — To improve the public relations of the Post Office, to bring Post Office activities alive to the general public. 1481. As an alternative to paid advertisements in the press? — It is not exclusive of paid advertisements in the press because these go on at the same time. There are two sides to public relations. The first is the creation of goodwill, and the second side is direct selling, which is best done in the press. 1482. You would not get the goodwill of the press if you did not advertise? — That is also a point. 1483. No Postmaster-General was ever praised in public until he had a large advertising allotment? — I have heard that remarked. 1484. This Advisory Committee you have mentioned here. I think nearly every thoughtful person who has been before us has had something to say about the Advisory Committee which should not be quite the same as the present one for various reasons. What you say as regards the present Committee would unquestionably be accepted by the members and it is not its business in general to undertake the examination and the discrimination which you would place upon it? — I understand that. 1485. But when you suggest that the membership should be more strongly representative of public interests and its membership should stand above commercial motives you are placing a very heavy responsibility on it because, if its attitude conflicts with commercial motives, it is apt to commit suicide? — I presume it .would consult very intimately the commercial interests through the main Trade Advisory Board. 1486. What is the main Trade Advisory Board ? — The present Committee. I am thinking of two committees, the main Trade Advisory Committee for the actual operation of the Act, for going into, let us say, any legal cases under the Act, and also this special committee which would work the exceptions. 1487. You appreciate the present Committee has exceedingly restricted Terms of Reference and it is really beyond its powers to deal with anything of this sort at all under the present Act. It will be necessary to establish a new Committee? — I imagine a new Committee would be necessary under any suggestion like this. 1488. You suggest that it should be more strongly representative of public interests. You mention the general Box Office public? — Yes. 1489. What about the interests of education ? — I mentioned that too in my supplementary remarks at the beginning. 1490. Would you regard that as covered by a representative of the Board of Education? — I think there are wider educational interests in the modern world than are represented by the Board of Education. We regard our so-called propaganda work as very deeply educational, and when you add the many educational interests of the B.B.C. the result is a wider field than is represented by the Board of Education. 1491. Have you collaborated with the B.B.C.?— We have been in close touch with them. 1492. Have you ever done a film for the B.B.C? — • We did make a film for the B.B.C. and during the year or eighteen months during which it was being made we had a close insight into the workings of the B.B.C. 1 I'.i.i. Do ymi regard the present organisation of the B.B.C. as one which has succeeded in keeping in reasonably close touch with the public? Yes, I think so. M!U. And yet there are no Members of Parliament in the Corporation. Its contact is not through